Standby Attitude Indicator no longer standing by

[Yariv]

Hi,

I noticed on my last flight that the standby attitude indicator precesses excessively and cannot be relied on. I understand that I could replace it with a GI-275 as its cost is very close to a an electric AI gyro. Called PCA and got a quote for the GI-275: 20 hours labor (3 days) and $6050. the soonest they can schedule it is April 2023. 

The airplane is a 2004 Ovation 2GX.

Did any of you have to replace the standby AI?

Any recommendations for other good shops (I am based in KPAE in WA)?

Thank you,

Yariv

[N201MKTurbo]

Why don’t you just get it overhauled?

[Yariv]

4 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Why don’t you just get it overhauled?

did not think of it:-).

Thank you.

[carusoam]

Overhaul is a good idea…

picking up a used AI, while you wait for your preferred solution…

There are probably a few ‘Life Saver’ AIs around… they are last week’s technology…

There are a few manufacturers of good back-up AIs….  One doubles a clock.

See what Alan has available…

Best regards,

-a-

[GeeBee]

I replaced mine with a GI-275 after failure. The cost was about 3600. 6 grand and 20 hours labor seems a little excessive.

If the problem is supply chain getting the GI-275 and you want to get flying again quickly might consider the AV-30-C, in stock at Spruce

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/uavionix_11-17556.php?clickkey=9463700

 

[EricJ]

Vacuum AIs are not too expensive these days, even on ebay, since many are being removed to be replaced with electronic units.  

If you know your AI model there may even be somebody here with a functional spare unit that was removed (I have two, one of which is inop).

 

[GeeBee]

5 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Vacuum AIs are not too expensive these days, even on ebay, since many are being removed to be replaced with electronic units.  

If you know your AI model there may even be somebody here with a functional spare unit that was removed (I have two, one of which is inop).

 

He has a Ovation 2 GX, the standby unit is electric and his primary is G1000. He has no vacuum pump.

[GeeBee]

The problem with overhaul is to overhaul that unit is almost 3 grand, and you still have an old style unit when you're finished. That is why I replaced it with a GI-275. In addition, the GI-275 has an internal battery so even if your emergency bus and your batteries throw craps, the thing will work for an hour which the old unit cannot do. 

 

 

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

Just say no to mechanical gyros. 

[Mooney Dog]

2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

I replaced mine with a GI-275 after failure. The cost was about 3600. 6 grand and 20 hours labor seems a little excessive.

If the problem is supply chain getting the GI-275 and you want to get flying again quickly might consider the AV-30-C, in stock at Spruce

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/uavionix_11-17556.php?clickkey=9463700

 

Doesnt the 275 start at 4k? Thats a great deal. 

[LANCECASPER]

6 hours ago, Yariv said:

Hi,

I noticed on my last flight that the standby attitude indicator precesses excessively and cannot be relied on. I understand that I could replace it with a GI-275 as its cost is very close to a an electric AI gyro. Called PCA and got a quote for the GI-275: 20 hours labor (3 days) and $6050. the soonest they can schedule it is April 2023. 

The airplane is a 2004 Ovation 2GX.

Did any of you have to replace the standby AI?

Any recommendations for other good shops (I am based in KPAE in WA)?

Thank you,

Yariv

How could that possibly be 20 hours labor. Are they interfacing with everything else on the panel?

@Deb did this upgrade recently and maybe could provide some guidance on what is a fair price installed.

[GeeBee]

24 minutes ago, Mooney Dog said:

Doesnt the 275 start at 4k? Thats a great deal. 

Spruce sells them for 3595 last I saw. Maybe more now. It certainly is not 20 hours to install. 5 at the most.

 

 

[Yariv]

17 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

How could that possibly be 20 hours labor. Are they interfacing with everything else on the panel?

@Deb did this upgrade recently and maybe could provide some guidance on what is a fair price installed.

PCA told me that they need to interface it to the pitot static system. Another shop told me that it needs to be connected to the G1000.

maybe I need to get a quote from another shop. A mechanic looked up the part number of the existing unit and told me that it is listed for $2883. That’s for a brand new one. He said the main time consuming part in replacing it would be to remove the glare shield. It has to be set with the correct tilt to have the parallax set right. That tilt value should be specified on the tag, he said.

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, Yariv said:

PCA told me that they need to interface it to the pitot static system. Another shop told me that it needs to be connected to the G1000.

maybe I need to get a quote from another shop. A mechanic looked up the part number of the existing unit and told me that it is listed for $2883. That’s for a brand new one. He said the main time consuming part in replacing it would be to remove the glare shield. It has to be set with the correct tilt to have the parallax set right. That tilt value should be specified on the tag, he said.

You have 0 degree tilt on the Mooney panel. The tag on your device will say that. There is nothing to set up if you put in another MidContinent Electric Attitude Indicator with zero degree tilt or you have yours rebuilt. 4 screws hold it in place. There is one four pin connector on the back. The glare shield is not hard to get off. If it was me, I would pull the glareshield off (5-10 minutes) , pull the 4 screws, grab your instrument  from the top where the glareshield used to be, (5-10 min) and send it off for rebuild (not necessarily MidContinent since there are other shops that do good work for less).

[M20Doc]

On 8/5/2022 at 7:02 PM, Jerry 5TJ said:

Just say no to mechanical gyros. 

Next thing you’ll suggest we get rid of magnetos too!

[Skates97]

I think I mention this unit quite often, but the RCA 2610-3 is a fantastic unit. Installation is as simple as can be with just a power and ground wire plus a breaker. 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/rca2610.php

[T. Peterson]

On 8/5/2022 at 5:20 PM, GeeBee said:

I replaced mine with a GI-275 after failure. The cost was about 3600. 6 grand and 20 hours labor seems a little excessive.

If the problem is supply chain getting the GI-275 and you want to get flying again quickly might consider the AV-30-C, in stock at Spruce

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/uavionix_11-17556.php?clickkey=9463700

 

FWIW I am very pleased with my AV-30. When I bought my 231 through Jimmy Garrison 5 months ago I made it clear that I wanted a back up AI. He highly recommended the AV-30, and I am very happy with it. The turn coordinator was bad so his mechanic just substituted the AV-30. As I remember the whole thing only added about 2300 bucks to the purchase price.

Torrey

[Jerry 5TJ]

11 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Next thing you’ll suggest we get rid of magnetos too!

That’s what I did.  

[LANCECASPER]

You still need a certified backup like you have to be legal. My backup works fine, but again it's way over to the right. It would be tough to scan the attitude airspeed and altimeter from than angle.

Until I decide whether I'll out in a GI-275, I ram-mounted a Dynon D3 Pocket Panel portable on my compass post.  I think I'd stand a better chance of getting it back on the ground safely with this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sse2fheso2igxkr/DynonD3.jpg?dl=0

[LANCECASPER]

On 8/5/2022 at 12:59 PM, Yariv said:

Hi,

I noticed on my last flight that the standby attitude indicator precesses excessively and cannot be relied on. I understand that I could replace it with a GI-275 as its cost is very close to a an electric AI gyro. Called PCA and got a quote for the GI-275: 20 hours labor (3 days) and $6050. the soonest they can schedule it is April 2023. 

The airplane is a 2004 Ovation 2GX.

Did any of you have to replace the standby AI?

Any recommendations for other good shops (I am based in KPAE in WA)?

Thank you,

Yariv

You still need a certified backup like you have to be legal. My backup works fine, but again it's way over to the right. It would be tough to scan the attitude airspeed and altimeter from than angle, plus the attitude indicator does not have a built-in battery or a slip/skid ball.

Until I decide whether I'll put in a GI-275, I ram-mounted a Dynon D3 Pocket Panel portable on my compass post.  I think I'd stand a better chance of getting it back on the ground safely with this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sse2fheso2igxkr/DynonD3.jpg?dl=0

[goodyFAB]

this is how panel upgrades start... once you change on thing you start wondering about the future of your panel.  I have had my eye on the av30 too, couple of those and you can ditch the vacuum system and they can stay if you ever upgrade further. 

 

[GeeBee]

You think you can't fly cross panel but you can. Maybe it was all those years as a CFI-I but I have flown a raw data ILS in a B757 from the right seat looking at the STBY instruments, wet compass and has the raw data ILS needles integrated into the AI. ALL is located next to the Captain's flight instruments. What is important is to use pitch trim and let the airplane seek its own trim speed. Thumb and a finger or two, keep it light.

[geoffb]

On 8/5/2022 at 4:02 PM, Jerry 5TJ said:

Just say no to mechanical gyros. 

don't think anyone's ever seen a big red X across a mechanical gyro's face.....

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, geoffb said:

don't think anyone's ever seen a big red X across a mechanical gyro's face.....

True, but many of the mechanical ones show no Red X when they or the vacuum fails…

[EricJ]

Just now, Ragsf15e said:

True, but many of the mechanical ones show no Red X when they or the vacuum fails…

If you're lucky they'll be doing aerobatics in front of you and it'll be obvious.   If not...um...    I'd rather have the red X.