Wet-Wingologists FXE

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

What did he charge you total for the job, do you have a C?

he quoted me 4500 per side so thats 9000 then he said an extra 450 per side for this fuel drain thing so that is $9,900.  So tonight he texts me that the bill will be               $11,976.88.  I text back right away why so much extra and no text back.  And its my understanding that there is no sales tax on aviation labor in florida...can someone verify that....I seem to read that and other bills I have have no sales tax on the labor..

https://www.floridasalestax.com/florida-tax-law-blog/2017/december/sales-tax-on-aircraft-parts-and-repairs-in-flori/

 

 

9000 is for the re-seal labor. 900 for the drains. Probably some considerable extra labor for doing the drains. Some of the rest is probably for fuel since they have to fill up and let it sit to make sure no leaks. Like all other shops they probably charge something for shop supplies. Probably some hardware. 

[Hank]

When Edison revealed my tanks in 2010?, he drove me to Banyan to pay them directly from the fuel. Memory says it was 52.2 gallons. 

His bill exactly matched the quote, and the bundle of cash that I brought with me. 

[Jim Peace]

21 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

9000 is for the re-seal labor. 900 for the drains. Probably some considerable extra labor for doing the drains. Some of the rest is probably for fuel since they have to fill up and let it sit to make sure no I leaks. Like all other shops they probably charge something for shop supplies. Probably some hardware. 

He told me I would have to pay Banyon directly when I get there for the fuel. It’s a separate thing. 

[LANCECASPER]

6 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

He told me I would have to pay Banyon directly when I get there for the fuel. It’s a separate thing. 

Ok maybe you’re being billed for a small deck on the back of his house : )

[Jim Peace]

22 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

9000 is for the re-seal labor. 900 for the drains. Probably some considerable extra labor for doing the drains. Some of the rest is probably for fuel since they have to fill up and let it sit to make sure no I leaks. Like all other shops they probably charge something for shop supplies. Probably some hardware. 

If all you do is reseal Mooney tanks and you give quotes out 4500 per side you should have it dialed in with shop supply’s. I even was fine with the extra 450 per side for a fuel drain. Will hopefully find out tomorrow where the extra 2k comes from. 

[ArtVandelay]

Yes, there’s no sales tax in Florida on aircraft maintenance.
This seems to happen often, shops give estimates that are really ballpark and bill comes in higher.

[Bartman]

Many years ago Edison did my tanks and it came to a little more than the quote. If memory serves he replaced the drains, but also had to rivet in some new nut plates for the bottom access panels that were corroded. I may be wrong on details but it was something like that. Anyway I remain very pleased with his work over 10years later. 
 

My fuel bill was separate. 

[SoccerCA]

Ask him to email you a formal invoice.

[Jim Peace]

Turns out there was some extra work to be done due to the original installer of my CEIS fuel senders, Daytona Aircraft Services.

They put fuel lube on all the gaskets as well as goop in the screws to mount the fuel senders.  This caused a bunch of leaks as well.

Paying it and moving on....

[SoccerCA]

I think Mike Busch refers to these situations as "maintenance-induced failures". Still, for a $2,000 - or 22% - increase from the original quote, I would have expected to be contacted for approval rather than just have it added on to the final invoice in a matter-of-fact kind of way...

[carusoam]

7 hours ago, SoccerCA said:

I would have expected to be contacted for approval rather than just have it added on to the final invoice in a matter-of-fact kind of way...

Odd thing about aviation….

If you don’t ask to be contacted for approval….

Expect to be surprised every now and then…

There are many stories about people’s first maintenance experiences around here…

Best regards,

-a-

[Pinecone]

11 hours ago, SoccerCA said:

I think Mike Busch refers to these situations as "maintenance-induced failures". Still, for a $2,000 - or 22% - increase from the original quote, I would have expected to be contacted for approval rather than just have it added on to the final invoice in a matter-of-fact kind of way...

Agreed.  A quick phone call explaining what extra needed to be done would be simple and everyone would be happy

[ArtVandelay]

Agreed.  A quick phone call explaining what extra needed to be done would be simple and everyone would be happy

I’ve found aviation businesses in particular are terrible at communicating…and today we have multiple opinions so they don’t have excuses: email, text, phone call….

[Joshua Blackh4t]

You'd be surprised at how long a 'quick phone call' takes in downtime.

Because then the client wants a full explanation, a breakdown in costs, wants you to listen to a story about why life shouldn't be like that etc. Meanwhile the person doing the work knows that there really is no option so why waste time/money?

I mean, I know the feeling, and have been caught out before myself, but most of the time there really wasn't any point asking me. 

[ArtVandelay]

You'd be surprised at how long a 'quick phone call' takes in downtime.
Because then the client wants a full explanation, a breakdown in costs, wants you to listen to a story about why life shouldn't be like that etc.

Text: “we found corrosion, expect $2,000 to fix”. ALWAYS estimate a bit on the high side.

Customers (especially older ones) will call, just ignore it if busy.

Or hire a young person to handle calls, send texts, emails, invoices, shipping…all the non mechanic work.

Never give your customers your personal cell phone number!

[Joshua Blackh4t]

21 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Text: “we found corrosion, expect $2,000 to fix”. ALWAYS estimate a bit on the high side.

Customers (especially older ones) will call, just ignore it if busy.

Or hire a young person to handle calls, send texts, emails, invoices, shipping…all the non mechanic work.

Never give your customers your personal cell phone number!

Very good advice. Its that bit about not answering calls that some people find offensive.

Personally I try to make sure that my mechanic knows I am ok with him billing me for time spent on the phone.

Clients are always the hardest part of the job. 

[MikeOH]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

Odd thing about aviation….

If you don’t ask to be contacted for approval….

Expect to be surprised every now and then…

There are many stories about people’s first maintenance experiences around here…

Best regards,

-a-

Even odder is that this is somehow deemed ok and, as you indicate, the customer’s fault!

[Jim Peace]

Picked up the plane this morning....all is well...no avgas smell on way back, Edison is a very nice guy and did excellent work.  I don't know what else more I can do to this plane.  Time to fly more.

[SoccerCA]

11 hours ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Because then the client wants a full explanation, a breakdown in costs, wants you to listen to a story about why life shouldn't be like that etc. Meanwhile the person doing the work knows that there really is no option so why waste time/money?

Call me old school but I'd say the client has every right to a full explanation & breakdown in costs for a $2,000 increase from the original quote, even if there is no other option...

[carusoam]

6 hours ago, SoccerCA said:

Call me old school but I'd say the client has every right to a full explanation & breakdown in costs for a $2,000 increase from the original quote, even if there is no other option...

Just remember to ask for it…

If not discussed, a surprise may occur.

Some people have an open wallet policy, which is not very common around MS…

Your plane, your money, your right to have it done your way… 
 

Your vendor needs to know what your way is…

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

9 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

Picked up the plane this morning....all is well...no avgas smell on way back, Edwin is a very nice guy and did excellent work.  I don't know what else more I can do to this plane.  Time to fly more.

It's Edison, not Edwin. He automatically charges $2000 more for those who get his name wrong. 

[MikeOH]

15 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Just remember to ask for it…

If not discussed, a surprise may occur.

Some people have an open wallet policy, which is not very common around MS…

Your plane, your money, your right to have it done your way… 
 

Your vendor needs to know what your way is…

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

Please tell me in what other service industry do you have to tell the vendor, in advance, that'd you need to be told about a 20% increase over what you were quoted BEFORE he does the additional work???  But, I guess, in this case, it's only $2,000.....arrgggh!

I'm reminded of a scene out of "Liar, Liar" where the main character complains about a 'vendor', "I could sue you, take you to court, win, get a judgement that I'd never collect, and waste hours of my time.  So, I'm just going to bend over and take it up the tailpipe!".  To which the proprietor replies, "Sounds like you've been here before!"

[carusoam]

2 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Please tell me in what other service industry do you have to tell the vendor, in advance, that'd you need to be told about a 20% increase over what you were quoted BEFORE he does the additional work???  But, I guess, in this case, it's only $2,000.....arrgggh!

I'm reminded of a scene out of "Liar, Liar" where the main character complains about a 'vendor', "I could sue you, take you to court, win, get a judgement that I'd never collect, and waste hours of my time.  So, I'm just going to bend over and take it up the tailpipe!".  To which the proprietor replies, "Sounds like you've been here before!"

Try getting car work done in NJ… 
 

Or servicing industrial machinery for your business…

Some customers have an open wallet policy… some don’t.

The confusion comes in when they mistake you for the open wallet kind of customer…

Some people like that…
 

Best regards,

-a-

[Bolter]

19 hours ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Very good advice. Its that bit about not answering calls that some people find offensive.

Personally I try to make sure that my mechanic knows I am ok with him billing me for time spent on the phone.

Clients are always the hardest part of the job. 

My approach, when I have trust in the shop, is give him a cost overrun budget.  For example, for annual, I tell him just fix things right, and no need to call me unless he is  expecting to go 2000 over the estimate.  We have a good history, and this does not get abused.  And it is rare I ever say "no" on a repair for a "forever" plane.  

-dan

[Pinecone]

I am fine with setting a limit, not to exceed.

But, without that, there should be notification and acceptance of any amount over the estimate.  
 

If you don’t want to waste time on the phone, you can always email