Kerrville crash, two lost..

[Eight8Victor]

https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/plane-crash-causes-fire-near-kerrville-airport/273-abcefc39-a20d-40a0-a4b8-e96aae7364dc

So sad, too many lately.

[Eight8Victor]

1 minute ago, Eight8Victor said:

https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/plane-crash-causes-fire-near-kerrville-airport/273-abcefc39-a20d-40a0-a4b8-e96aae7364dc

So sad, too many lately.

@mike_elliott

[PeteMc]

Sorry to hear about the crash.

(KENS has got to have the worst news website I've seen in years!!  Multiple videos embedded in the textual story which have NOTHING to do with the crash!)

 

[neilpilot]

5 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Looks like it is N4267H, a 1978 M20J registered to GMT ENTERPRISES LLC in Stephenville.  
ADS-B Exchange - tracking 13267 aircraft (adsbexchange.com)

N4267H Flight Tracking and History 25-Jun-2022 (KERV-KERV) - FlightAware

Airport elevation is 1617 ft.  ADSB Exchange corrected shows he never got above 1850 ft geometric.  

Flightaware shows what appears like odd flight history of this aircraft, maybe constituting demo or test flights.  Short flights out & back at ERV both the Thursday & Friday preceding this crash.

[ArtVandelay]

Previous 2 flights were short (9min) flights, possibly post maintenance flights trying to fix an issue?

[anthonydesmet]

Never really got above 110 - 120mph either.

[chriscalandro]

I’m told this is the home flight from a Mooney factory annual. 
 

not sure of the accuracy of this report. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by chriscalandro

[chriscalandro]

15 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Then why repeat it?

Because from what I can tell it’s most likely the case, I’ve heard it from several people, but nothing has officially been stated. 
 

it isn’t any more or less accurate than any of these details in any of these discussions. 
 

I’ve been in the Austin area all week. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by chriscalandro

[LANCECASPER]

51 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

I’m told this is the home flight from a Mooney factory annual. 
 

not sure of the accuracy of this report. 

Totally untrue- blatant lie.

I live 13 miles from the factory. I've been in the factory service center every week for the past month. The airplane wasn't there.

[chriscalandro]

12 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Totally untrue- blatant lie.

I live 13 miles from the factory. I've been in the factory service center every week for the past month. The airplane wasn't there.

It was 100% on the ramp on Monday.  So it was either Dugosh or the factory, people I know are telling me factory.

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by chriscalandro

[LANCECASPER]

7 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

It was 100% on the ramp on Monday  

 

The ramp is where Dugosh and Kerrville Aviation is. The factory is across the field.

[Seth]

Mooney Summit, Mike, Rick, and Seth are now aware and mobilizing.

-Seth

[ArtVandelay]

Reported on BT, it was at factory for annual, pilot’s name Greg Thompson.

[chriscalandro]

8 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Reported on BT, it was at factory for annual, pilot’s name Greg Thompson.

Careful. Someone’s going to reply saying you’re lying

[LANCECASPER]

24 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Reported on BT, it was at factory for annual, pilot’s name Greg Thompson.

Only thing I can tell you is that it hasn't been in the Service Center since April 25. I saw every airplane that was there recently. They were Ovations and Acclaims. If it was serviced prior to that, maybe. 

[toto]

20 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

There are no recorded flights between December 3, 2021 and June 23, 2022.

• Who was working on this Mooney last year?
• Was the Factory providing service, repairs and annuals last fall?
• Why would the Factory even touch a modified Mooney?
  • The Factory did not originally make the modifications, has no unique skill related to the STC's and in reality has no more knowledge and skill related to the modification than a good competent A&P when dealing with these no longer supported STC's.
  • This goes for all modifications by Mod Squad, Mod Works, Rocket Engineering, Aircraft Design Inc. (early Darwin Conrad "pre -Rocket Engineering" STC) M20 Turbo, etc.
  • The Mooney Factory does not have the specs or drawings - they are no better, no more skilled and have no more expertise than any good A&P in this situation.
  • For the Factory to have anything to do with a modified Mooney seems like a disproportioned liability waiting to happen. - Pollack is an attorney - one would think he is sensitive to this.

I definitely don't know what I'm talking about here, so apologies if I'm way off base, but - I thought that the "Factory Service Center" is just a service center that happens to be owned by the Mooney factory.  They would take on any service project that any other MSC would take on.

We all sort of suspect that a mechanic employed by the factory service center would really know Mooneys, and we kind of hope that the factory service center would have really good access to replacement parts.  But my understanding is that it's still basically a MSC.

[Shadrach]

15 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

Careful. Someone’s going to reply saying you’re lying

It’s one thing to say a fatal crash occurred on a home flight after leaving a maintenance facility. It very much implies potential causation.

It’s quite another to say a plane that’s been sitting for more than six months post annual crashed after two, single digit shake down flights.

I think you know probably know this. Where you aware that it had been sitting on the field since Dec? 

[carusoam]

5 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

Because from what I can tell it’s most likely the case, I’ve heard it from several people, but nothing has officially been stated. 
 

it isn’t any more or less accurate than any of these details in any of these discussions. 
 

I’ve been in the Austin area all week. 

Chris,

you might remember…

Speculation in an accident thread is best left out of the conversation until a later time…

This is more important than any other discussion.

This is done out of respect for all the readers and family that show up here after a brief search…

See what I mean…?

Best regards,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

If anyone has the surviving spouses contact info, please forward it to me.

Also, if anyone knows the surviving spouse info for :

12/31/21 N6796N Arizona City, Az
Randy K. Donnarumma

or

6/10/22 N305L Rocket Camarillo, CA
Dr. Jacob

We would greatly appreciate that info.

In doing this since 2014, I have noticed a trend, and it confirms what the FAA has said about those that attend safety events and seminars. While not making general assumptions about pilot error, it only stands to reason that while we  gladly spend 3K on our panel for additional safety and skimp on the most important system of the plane, the pilot, our accident and incident record could more reflect that of military and commercial if we trained more rigorously and effectively.

/soapbox mode off

 

[EricJ]

In my observation the vast majority of content in any of the accident threads here (or just about anywhere) are speculation.    I think that's okay because it gets people thinking about potential issues and how to handle similar situations, etc.

If we're gonna have speculation police it's gonna cut the traffic way, way down.

Or we can just recognize that this is, in fact, the internet, and anything posted here or anywhere else therein should be treated as such.

 

[PeteMc]

23 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I think that's okay because it gets people thinking about potential issues and how to handle similar situations, etc.

I totally agree.  I often do the "what if" thought process as I read these various scenarios and think it should be part of everyone's personal training.

I once had a little smell of smoke in the cockpit and on first glace of the instruments everything was right where it should be.  And, as other's have said, I did that "I can make it home" for about a half second as I was still circling the panel.  In that second or two it took to come back around to the JPI I had no #5 cylinder.   At that point it was a no brainer and advised JFK I was landing.

So I'm all for thinking through the options while being an armchair coach so you don't START thinking about it  when it's too late...

 

(And I've now posted this on the Internet, so it must be true! )

 

[Jonny]

Hi Folks.

For clarity, the Mooney factory didn't perform the annual on the aircraft that was lost. In any event, our focus right now is keeping the friends and family of those who were lost in our thoughts and prayers and allowing the NTSB to do their work.

Kind regards,

Jonny

 

 

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Surely someone can clear up this "speculation".  I hope that we don't need to wait the now usual 2.5 - 3 years for the NTSB Final Report to be issued.

On the post previous to yours Jonny, CEO of Mooney, cleared up that the Mooney Factory Service Center did not annual this airplane.

I'm sure that the NTSB will interview everyone involved and at some point we'll all know.

Besides Dugosh there are many other independent mechanics that work on Mooneys in this area as well.

[PT20J]

Speculation is natural -- we all do it. But, please be very thoughtful about statements that can be hurtful to individuals or disparage a business. Jonny is trying to harness the expertise of the factory service center to generate much needed cash flow. This can be a win for the factory and owners alike. Rumors spread like wildfire on the Internet and he certainly doesn't need to spend his time defending against inaccurate and harmful assertions.

Skip

[chriscalandro]

It’s a hypocritical statement to not openly discuss just because it may or may not be the Mooney factory. 
 

When we talk about post maintenance accidents we always talk about the shop. in this case no fewer than 3 people have directly told me the Mooney factory was the shop. 
 

It should be no different in this case. 
 

you don’t get to shield or censor a topic just because the direction the discussion is going doesn’t look kindly on a thing you like. 
 

3 people who know the owner and know I was in the area called me. All 3 said it was at Mooney for some work and an annual. Johnny said it was not at Mooney. 
 

That’s where we’re at. That’s not disparaging to a business. It’s a flow of information. Information that if true, I’m 100% certain would not make it to this public forum by anyone that would have been involved or know for sure.  This forum has a demonstrated history of hiding and withholding information when that information is negative to a group or individual. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by chriscalandro