Panel improvements needed....

[Cruiser73]

I am planning to start my ifr training and the more I study I realize my panel with one VOR is going to be challenging.  

Current panel: Garmin GNC 300XL, KX 175B w/KI 206 vor/loc/gs.  Garmin gtx 327 transponder

My panel is still shot gun layout and I would like to put it in the more common 6 pack layout. 

The 300xl isn't connected to an Hsi or cdi so it can't be used for gps approachs.  

My thoughts are to purchase a used HSI and GPS annunciator panel.  The HSI would replace my heading indicator and should make my 300xl legal for gps non precision approachs.  I think the an HSI would be nice feature anyway.  

It would be nice if the 300xl wasn't just gps and com.  My stack doesn't have room to add another nav/com.  Do I really need two navs if I have gps approach options?  If so does Garmin make the 300 size with nav/com/gps?

Sorry for the rambling.

 

 

[Ragsf15e]

6 minutes ago, Cruiser73 said:

I am planning to start my ifr training and the more I study I realize my panel with one VOR is going to be challenging.  

Current panel: Garmin GNC 300XL, KX 175B w/KI 206 vor/loc/gs.  Garmin gtx 327 transponder

My panel is still shot gun layout and I would like to put it in the more common 6 pack layout. 

The 300xl isn't connected to an Hsi or cdi so it can't be used for gps approachs.  

My thoughts are to purchase a used HSI and GPS annunciator panel.  The HSI would replace my heading indicator and should make my 300xl legal for gps non precision approachs.  I think the an HSI would be nice feature anyway.  

It would be nice if the 300xl wasn't just gps and com.  My stack doesn't have room to add another nav/com.  Do I really need two navs if I have gps approach options?  If so does Garmin make the 300 size with nav/com/gps?

Sorry for the rambling.

 

 

 

No reason for 2 navs if you’ve got separate gps.  However, you will have to do all your precision approaches off the older nav… is that going to be hooked up to your hsi too? Or is it already on a separate cdi?  Your scan may suffer on precision approaches if it’s a separate cdi.

depending on what type each is, will depend on what HSI you can get, but I wouldn’t recommend any of the older mechanical versions.  Just go straight to a G5 or GI275.  Not only can they do the HSI thing, but provide backup ADI and probably be fine as part of any future panel work you do.

[Ragsf15e]

What are you using for adsb in/out?

[Wildhorsetrail]

1 hour ago, Cruiser73 said:

My thoughts are to purchase a used HSI and GPS annunciator panel.  The HSI would replace my heading indicator and should make my 300xl legal for gps non precision approachs.  I think the an HSI would be nice feature anyway.  

 

 

 

 

I think this is what I'd do for the time being. 

[Greg Ellis]

8 hours ago, Cruiser73 said:

I am planning to start my ifr training and the more I study I realize my panel with one VOR is going to be challenging.  

Current panel: Garmin GNC 300XL, KX 175B w/KI 206 vor/loc/gs.  Garmin gtx 327 transponder

My panel is still shot gun layout and I would like to put it in the more common 6 pack layout. 

The 300xl isn't connected to an Hsi or cdi so it can't be used for gps approachs.  

My thoughts are to purchase a used HSI and GPS annunciator panel.  The HSI would replace my heading indicator and should make my 300xl legal for gps non precision approachs.  I think the an HSI would be nice feature anyway.  

It would be nice if the 300xl wasn't just gps and com.  My stack doesn't have room to add another nav/com.  Do I really need two navs if I have gps approach options?  If so does Garmin make the 300 size with nav/com/gps?

Sorry for the rambling.

 

 

 

I flew for 14 years IFR behind a panel much like you have (shot gun panel, one Nav, GNC300XL, no autopilot).  Although I was spoiled... my GNC300XL was IFR certified for enroute and approaches.   When I updated my panel I think I may have kept the old CDI that the GNC 300XL used as well as the GPS annunciator panel from it.  I will check this weekend when I go to my hangar.  They are yours if I have them and if you want them.  May be able to at least get you something more capable for less money.  Send me a PM if interested.

[MMsuper21]

Going through similar situation, just upgraded my panel layout now waiting for GNX375 and GI275 (September delivery date...). I had no GPS. 

I would check if the Gi275 interfaces with the GNC300. GI275 has lots of legacy interfaces and supports GPS.

GI275 HSI installed runs around 5AMU.

You can get the GI275 MFD for 3.5AMU and install should be .5AMU that will give you CDI however you can't upgrade later to HSI or ADHRS.

[Cruiser73]

21 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

No reason for 2 navs if you’ve got separate gps.  However, you will have to do all your precision approaches off the older nav… is that going to be hooked up to your hsi too? Or is it already on a separate cdi?  Your scan may suffer on precision approaches if it’s a separate cdi.

depending on what type each is, will depend on what HSI you can get, but I wouldn’t recommend any of the older mechanical versions.  Just go straight to a G5 or GI275.  Not only can they do the HSI thing, but provide backup ADI and probably be fine as part of any future panel work you do.

I have a KX175b with CDI and GS.  I would like to more upgrades down the road but the G5 and GI275 are quite a bit more than a used HSI.  I think in a few years I could spend $15-20 making more modern but until then I would like some more capability.  

 

21 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

What are you using for adsb in/out?

I have GDL 82  for ASBD out and GDL39 ADSB in.

 

10 hours ago, MMsuper21 said:

Going through similar situation, just upgraded my panel layout now waiting for GNX375 and GI275 (September delivery date...). I had no GPS. 

I would check if the Gi275 interfaces with the GNC300. GI275 has lots of legacy interfaces and supports GPS.

GI275 HSI installed runs around 5AMU.

You can get the GI275 MFD for 3.5AMU and install should be .5AMU that will give you CDI however you can't upgrade later to HSI or ADHRS.

it isn’t clear if they will interface with the 300xl.  I think there maybe too many generations between my stuff and the current stuff.

 

 

thanks for the responses and opinions.  

[Ragsf15e]

8 minutes ago, Cruiser73 said:

I have a KX175b with CDI and GS.  I would like to more upgrades down the road but the G5 and GI275 are quite a bit more than a used HSI.  I think in a few years I could spend $15-20 making more modern but until then I would like some more capability.  

 

I have GDL 82  for ASBD out and GDL39 ADSB in.

 

it isn’t clear if they will interface with the 300xl.  I think there maybe too many generations between my stuff and the current stuff.

 

 

thanks for the responses and opinions.  

I agree the G5 and-275 are more than a used mechanical HSI, but installation is roughly the same (if not more for the used mech).  You should save up and do at least the G5 HSI if you really want an HSI.  Heck, I have a used mechanical HSI and magnameter in my hangar.  Working when removed.  I’d probably give them away for peanuts if someone really wanted to install them, but I definitely wouldn’t recommend that to someone.  If you install used, you have outdated, unsupported (somewhat), “tech” from the 70s, but install cost was same as a G5.

[Cruiser73]

11 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I agree the G5 and-275 are more than a used mechanical HSI, but installation is roughly the same (if not more for the used mech).  You should save up and do at least the G5 HSI if you really want an HSI.  Heck, I have a used mechanical HSI and magnameter in my hangar.  Working when removed.  I’d probably give them away for peanuts if someone really wanted to install them, but I definitely wouldn’t recommend that to someone.  If you install used, you have outdated, unsupported (somewhat), “tech” from the 70s, but install cost was same as a G5.

That’s makes sense.  But it starts the slippery slope G5 and better GPS, etc….and soon it have spent more on avionics then I did on the plane.  

[Ragsf15e]

3 minutes ago, Cruiser73 said:

That’s makes sense.  But it starts the slippery slope G5 and better GPS, etc….and soon it have spent more on avionics then I did on the plane.  

Oh that’s definitely possible.  Maybe even likely.  That’s why planning, thinking, and coordinating with your shop are key.  I really think you’ll be much happier waiting to get something new.  Look and see if anyone is selling a used certified G5?  Not sure if that’s a thing, but if it breaks, it’s easy to replace.

[McMooney]

a used hsi is only slighly cheaper than a g5, good deal cheaper than a gi-275.  install probably about the same,  i'd just bite the bullet.

I believe with a g5/gi275/md200/gi106,  you won't need an annunciator as long as the radio and cdi are in your field of vision.

gnc 300xl is fine, only thing you're losing is lpv approaches.  

installing gps anything except for maybe a gns175 gets super expensive really fast.  labor is just crazy.

 

[Skates97]

Dual G5's and a GNC355 get rid of the vacuum system and gets you GPS approaches. The 355 is short and would replace the 300XL in the stack.

[MMsuper21]

I started sliding down the slope however was able to somewhat stop myself. I opted for a single ADHRS/HSI GI275 and having it installed as MFD. 

It is not primary but I get all the pages, including HSI, CDI, moving weather maps, traffic, etc and backup ADI. 

When the vac starts to act up or any vac powered instruments I will grab a second GI275 and turn them into primaries.  

At this point the Dual GI275 are a full primary backup. I plan on keeping my other instruments however if they fail I am not grounded. 

Unless its close to free I wouldn't do the G5's at this point since they only replace ADI, HSI, and Turn Indicator and don't interface with legacy VOR systems. 

 

[carusoam]

Panel with one VOR went out of style on the east coast 20+ years ago…

Sure… you can train and obtain an IR with it….

Depending on the weather and where you fly…. Having minimal equipment would be bad for your health…. 

 

Most people around here are considering a box and display for all WAAS gps based approaches…

Keep in mind… old equipment costs as much to install as new equipment….

Bang for the buck….

G430W and a G5 display….  VOR, ILS, WAAS the works….   Good substitute for DME and ADF…. (If you wanted too)

 

PP thoughts only not a CFI…

Best regards,

-a-

[Utah20Gflyer]

I was in your situation but with a king KLN89B GPS that was installed VFR.  I ended up putting in a Garmin 355 and a GI 275 HSI.  Installed cost was a little over 16k.  I felt it was a better value to pay a little more for new equipment rather than mess with upgrading old equipment.