Jakes Simmons Posted June 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2022 Received a reply email from Chris at Duncan covering a couple more of my questions about support, parts, and BK. He responded that Duncan and Peregrine did all the STC paperwork and pushed it through. Duncan plans to stock all the autopilot parts and handle any warranty issues. I am going to go ahead and roll the dice on this one and get in the queue. Certainly not risk free but considering what I use my Ranger for and how often I fly it, this is the best bet for me currently. If I had a 201 or better, I’d probably be going STec but my $$$ is just not there. If folks are interested, I’ll post now and again how things progress. p.s. what I’m really buying the autopilot for? Something that will just hold the plane steady for 10 minutes while I contort to use the blue gel… 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 6, 2022 Report Share Posted June 6, 2022 Good luck Jake! Keep us up to date with your project. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted June 6, 2022 Report Share Posted June 6, 2022 18 hours ago, MikeOH said: You got me beat! I had to demonstrate intersection holds, but I had TWO navs! Honestly, I have more trouble with all the button pushing on my Garmin. I've never completely bought the claim that GPS/glass is safer because of better 'situational awareness'...that's true while it's working! Pre-GPS/glass you had to form an accurate mental image to maintain SA, ALL the time! I worry that that skill, in general, has been highly degraded as it's only natural to tacitly become dependent on the pretty pictures! I agree that it can be done, and we Should all be able to do it by hand flying, but I feel much safer using a good auto pilot because I can stay much farther ahead of the airplane and think about big picture things that I could not spend as much time on before. Just because we can do it the old way doesn’t mean we should. None of this means that I think we all need a gfc500, but we shouldn’t put down the benefits of a good auto pilot for hard IFR flying. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted June 6, 2022 Report Share Posted June 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said: I agree that it can be done, and we Should all be able to do it by hand flying, but I feel much safer using a good auto pilot because I can stay much farther ahead of the airplane and think about big picture things that I could not spend as much time on before. Just because we can do it the old way doesn’t mean we should. None of this means that I think we all need a gfc500, but we shouldn’t put down the benefits of a good auto pilot for hard IFR flying. @Ragsf15e I agree; I certainly use my STEC-30 w/alt hold. And, for the reasons you state; more CPU cycles for the 'big picture'. My comment was not meant to denigrate auto-pilots. I was actually more focused on over reliance on GPS/glass; I have to believe the ability to fly on partial panel and raw data becomes degraded over time, and when the TV goes on the fritz I think many pilots may struggle in IMC, IMHO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Boomer Posted June 7, 2022 Report Share Posted June 7, 2022 13 hours ago, MikeOH said: and when the TV goes on the fritz I think many pilots may struggle in IMC, IMHO. And maybe VMC too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 Maybe another perspective ? I never had an AP until after getting my MEATP in a Navajo in 73' I flew many IFR trips in my Cessna 140 with 1 NAV 1 Com and verturi driven gyros (if you don't know what a venturi gyro system is go look it up). Millions of hours of IMC were logged long before APs became "normal:. Go ask an old "Hump" pilot (probably many of you have no idea what a Hump pilot was). AT the other end of the career I've done more CAT III Autolands with redundant APs down to 600 RVR than I care to remember. in 757s Airbus and 727s (yes 727s Eaastern had 600 RVR on select -15 727-200s with manual throttles for airspeed control). To say a student needs or has to have an AP to earn the IR is a false argument. Can it help? Of course but to blame poor outcomes on no AP is disengenous . If you can't hand fly the entire trip you shouldn't have the rating period! Because some day the AP will fail and then its up to you. And I stand by that statement. We had many airline pilots (and I guess we still do) that we called AP cripples becaue of their inability to hand fly correctly. The FAA is just waking up to this issue. On the other hand as I have said for years on this forum not everyone wants or needs a full on down to mins AP for their airplane or their flying style. A large number of Mooney owners are VFR only types but Mooneys do cross country flying in a higher ratio than most other makes so a good VFR AP will be a God send to many many owners. Even if one is not IR rated and ONLY a VFR pilot something like the AC 100 with its "one button push for level flight" is the biggest safety device we will ever see in our flying lives. Just think how many lives could have been saved in the last 4 years as we waited for such a system! How will your wife feel about that button if you crater in flight? For 7K its the cheapest full on safety device we've ever seen. To say that it can't fly straight and level I feel comes from having never flown with one or never had a good installation to fly behind. Just look to utube for many views of the TT AP and how well it flies airplanes. Coming from the Jurasic world of flying (round motors and venturi instruments) to all the bells a whistles was quite a jump. I just dumped my old steam panel for a Dynon screen and the change in info gathering and simplicity of the installation is dramatic. As big a jump as from a 727 to the Airbus. The big take away for me is that I no longer have to worry about instrument failures and repairs as I did with half century old gages. Think about it folks you are IMC with one vacuum pump one electrical source (because you have no idea how good your battery is because you haven't done a capacity check on it since you put it in) and 50 year old systems. Systems probably older than you are and you are literally betting your life on them. I just did away with 90% of my "breakable" items. The benifits are mind blowing. Now I have an option IF Dynon doesn't get their AP certified (and yes I took a leap of faith on that one). Now I can sell all the Brittian AP stuff I have been accumulating over the years. Now we need to see the AML list for Mooneys to see what airframes are covered by the STC!! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 Great other perspective Cliffy! Fantastic panel as well. Follow-up question…. What’s that device to the left of the ignition switch? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 Its the data input port for the Dynon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 I think the questions is: With the proper training and equipment who would do a better job of flying the airplane in a high workload/high stress situation? If everything goes right in a single engine IFR situation, yes a well-trained pilot can and should be a be able to handle it all by hand and by himself. But everything doesn’t always go right. Many private pilots don’t know how to use their autopilot properly and sadly many instructors don’t have a vast knowledge of how all of the new boxes work with the old boxes if they’re in the same panel. I still believe that being a properly trained pilot includes being taught how to use all of the available equipment properly in the airplane. If you can use an autopilot and manage everything you have available and save some brain power for making good decisions you are ahead of the airplane. Of course it is good to practice hand flying for sure, but there’s a reason some insurance company now give a “technology discount”. They feel that the statistics show that more situational awareness and the help of an autopilot in single pilot IFR provide a better outcome. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 my IFR rating was in a Maule m5 with good basic navcom,adf and vac guages but no autopilot.At age 27 I felt comfortable flying in fairly low imc from fog but never in higher icing alitudes to clear mountanous terrain.Sure we trained to do intersection holds with one navcom or adf but I would never go back to serious IFR flight with that kind of equipment now at age 70.I probably would not have undertaken half the current flights I feel good about because the advances in gps,moving map,digital autopilots ,turbo charging ,FIKI ice protection have made all the difference .Sure any one unit can fail just like the engine can and we fly with many good backups to all the glass...I could probably figure out an intersection hold in IMC but if that were actually the case ,I would be declaring an emergency and getting all the help via radar vectors i could.I still to this day have a good idea where the nearest basic vfr (1000 )before any IFR flight.There is a reason all the airline guys fly with all the equipment they have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 23 hours ago, thinwing said: my IFR rating was in a Maule m5 with good basic navcom,adf and vac guages but no autopilot.At age 27 I felt comfortable flying in fairly low imc from fog but never in higher icing alitudes to clear mountanous terrain.Sure we trained to do intersection holds with one navcom or adf but I would never go back to serious IFR flight with that kind of equipment now at age 70.I probably would not have undertaken half the current flights I feel good about because the advances in gps,moving map,digital autopilots ,turbo charging ,FIKI ice protection have made all the difference .Sure any one unit can fail just like the engine can and we fly with many good backups to all the glass...I could probably figure out an intersection hold in IMC but if that were actually the case ,I would be declaring an emergency and getting all the help via radar vectors i could.I still to this day have a good idea where the nearest basic vfr (1000 )before any IFR flight.There is a reason all the airline guys fly with all the equipment they have. With the equipment you have an intersection hold today is a piece of cake. In fact, a hold any place is a piece of cake with the GTNs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted June 22, 2022 Report Share Posted June 22, 2022 no kidding..and all the entrys handled by the box instead of mental gymnastics i no longer have 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted June 23, 2022 Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 Has anyone seen the AML to verify what models are covered by the STC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted June 23, 2022 Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, cliffy said: Has anyone seen the AML to verify what models are covered by the STC? It was installed on an Eagle (M20S). But these folks would know: https://www.duncanaviation.aero/news/duncan-aviation-has-stc-to-install-bendixking-aerocruze-100-autopilot-in-mooney-m20s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriscalandro Posted June 23, 2022 Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 I got my ir in my Mooney in about 6 months with no autopilot. I’ve kept current flying actual in the same airplane with no autopilot. It isn’t difficult. if you can’t hand fly an approach you should not be flying in ifr. Period. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 23, 2022 Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 5 hours ago, chriscalandro said: I got my ir in my Mooney in about 6 months with no autopilot. I’ve kept current flying actual in the same airplane with no autopilot. It isn’t difficult. if you can’t hand fly an approach you should not be flying in ifr. Period. Yep, that's what I do for practice. Sometimes will use my Brittain AccuTrac since that's what I do for real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rspencer612 Posted August 14, 2022 Report Share Posted August 14, 2022 BK Aerocruze 100 Going in my missile with the Skyview HDX now. Just got the tech data from Chris, Waiting on BK to send the kits, estimated another 30-60 days. But we have all the tech data which is good news. It was around $6200 tax and all for the flatpack kit and STC. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammdo Posted August 14, 2022 Report Share Posted August 14, 2022 Sanger! Nice area... Gotta eat at Babe's now ;o) -Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rspencer612 Posted August 15, 2022 Report Share Posted August 15, 2022 7 hours ago, hammdo said: Sanger! Nice area... Gotta eat at Babe's now ;o) -Don Babes is good, Sweetie Pies Rib Eyes (same owner) in Decatur is better IMHO! Haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammdo Posted August 15, 2022 Report Share Posted August 15, 2022 I've eaten there too! good food... -Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will.iam Posted August 23, 2022 Report Share Posted August 23, 2022 On 8/14/2022 at 11:23 AM, Rspencer612 said: BK Aerocruze 100 Going in my missile with the Skyview HDX now. Just got the tech data from Chris, Waiting on BK to send the kits, estimated another 30-60 days. But we have all the tech data which is good news. It was around $6200 tax and all for the flatpack kit and STC. How is the skyview hdx interfacing with the aerocruse 100? And if it can interface could an aerocruse 230 interface as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted August 23, 2022 Report Share Posted August 23, 2022 On 8/14/2022 at 10:23 AM, Rspencer612 said: BK Aerocruze 100 Going in my missile with the Skyview HDX now. Just got the tech data from Chris, Waiting on BK to send the kits, estimated another 30-60 days. But we have all the tech data which is good news. It was around $6200 tax and all for the flatpack kit and STC. Just heard from AC Spruce and they want payment to send to BK for the Aerocruze for my airplane Has anyone paid for their equipment right now and awaiting the shipment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionudakis Posted August 23, 2022 Report Share Posted August 23, 2022 Yes, I have one on order through Duncan. 100% up front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted August 23, 2022 Report Share Posted August 23, 2022 OK then that makes more sense THANKS for this reply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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