A64Pilot Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 (edited) BMW 5 series weighs between 3,700 lbs and 4,300 lbs. Audi A4 weighs between 3,600 and 3,700 lbs. Our Tesla Model 3SR+ weighs 3,600 lbs So where is this excess weight that chews tires up? I can tell you, it’s in the ICE SUV’s, Tahoe 5,300 to 5,800 lbs Our Tesla is the lightest of the bunch and it compares well to the Audi and BMW for size etc. I know you can easily build an inefficient overweight EV, and that’s exactly what a lot of companies are doing, I guess that’s the US automakers SOP to be honest, it’s easier to do that, lightweight and efficient are harder, but in the long run cheaper, because in part you get the same or better range out of a smaller, cheaper battery Edited May 3, 2022 by A64Pilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 My new EV, 35 mile range and it fits in the Mooney! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 There is some kind of safety device you put under a one wheel under the nose to keep it from digging in, a neighbor who has one says it’s worth having. I’d look into one but I have too many folding bicycles, electric scooters now, even have one gas powered folding bike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exM20K Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: BMW 5 series weighs between 3,700 lbs and 4,300 lbs. Audi A4 weighs between 3,600 and 3,700 lbs. Our Tesla Model 3SR+ weighs 3,600 lbs So where is this excess weight that chews tires up? I can tell you, it’s in the ICE SUV’s, Tahoe 5,300 to 5,800 lbs Our Tesla is the lightest of the bunch and it compares well to the Audi and BMW for size etc. I know you can easily build an inefficient overweight EV, and that’s exactly what a lot of companies are doing, I guess that’s the US automakers SOP to be honest, it’s easier to do that, lightweight and efficient are harder, but in the long run cheaper, because in part you get the same or better range out of a smaller, cheaper battery Apples vs potatoes. Real world example… F150 Lightning is 1600# heavier than ICE version Mustang Mach E is approx 1000# heavier than ICE versions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, exM20K said: Apples vs potatoes. Real world example… F150 Lightning is 1600# heavier than ICE version Mustang Mach E is approx 1000# heavier than ICE versions. As I said it’s easier to build overweight inefficient vehicles and that’s what the US Auto industry seems to default to. The fact that Ford and GM are back to business as usual is no surprise, it seems to be in their DNA. I posted the other day a towing test between an ICE F-150 and a Rivian, seems the Rivian is so inefficient that towing costs are about the same as the F-150, so just making something electric if not done well doesn’t accomplish much, slapping in a bunch of inefficient motors on a vehicle and having to have a huge battery to get usable range is akin to the 1970’s Cadillacs. The Rivian while I know nothing about it must be very inefficient if it can’t tow the same trailer over the same course and speed for less money Seems to be a fair test to me But you don’t have to build heavy and inefficient and in the long run it’s cheaper not to. Your saying a BMW 5 series and an Audi A4 are apples to potato’s to a Tesla 3, which ICE car do you think is comparable? Edited May 3, 2022 by A64Pilot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 If these guys had any sense they'd make it so you can effortlessly swap the battery. Drain one, land, put in a fresh one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, steingar said: If these guys had any sense they'd make it so you can effortlessly swap the battery. Drain one, land, put in a fresh one. That’s what I thought would happen with cars, a standard battery and “filling” stations would swap them out, have a truck? then maybe you would have two or three. That’s how we handled model airplanes and helicopters, be charging two and flying one battery, kept you flying continuously if you wanted to. But in all honesty you can charge a Tesla to 80% or so from near dead in 15, maybe 20 min. So hot swapping a battery isn’t necessary Attached screen shows our charging rate, we have the small battery, if we had the bigger one it would charge at an even faster rate, the higher the charge the battery is, the slower it will accept a charge, hence stopping at 80 ish percent or so. The car calculates the stops, knows the operational status and how busy the chargers are so if ones broke or that charge station is busy it routes you to another. Tesla’s are always connected to the internet so it knows this and traffic and will route accordingly. We are charging at 165 KW, 250 KW Tesla chargers are out there as are 150 KW, so we were at a 250 KW charger, if we had the bigger battery I’m sure we would have started out at 250 and not 165 Edited May 3, 2022 by A64Pilot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exM20K Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 8 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: Your saying a BMW 5 series and an Audi A4 are apples to potato’s to a Tesla 3, which ICE car do you think is comparable? Comparable, how? AS with aircraft ownership, use cases differ, and some are more suitable than others for particular use cases. Same car, different drive train, and the EV is heavier. Substantially so because the EV powertrain adds weight. I responded to your question of "How can anyone seriously think an EV that travels over 250 miles on 50KW of electricity doesn’t pollute less than an ICE vehicle that burns 10 gallons of gasoline or Diesel to do the same?" By asking if your definition of pollution isn't a bit narrow, and a broader look at "pollution" casts doubt for me on the "pollution" mitigation possibilities of current EV's. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 38 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: There is some kind of safety device you put under a one wheel under the nose to keep it from digging in, a neighbor who has one says it’s worth having. I’d look into one but I have too many folding bicycles, electric scooters now, even have one gas powered folding bike They are called Fangs. They are little casters that lets the OneWheel coast a bit if it nosedives. I'm too old to get it to nosedive, that's for young bucks that try to go to fast. So far it says I have maxed out at 11 MPH. Supposedly it will go over 25! I doubt I'll ever hit that. It is good for going from hangar to hangar at the airport. And when I need to switch planes in the hangar, it saves me 1/2 mile of walking. I just zoom out to the plane on the ramp, throw the OneWheel in the plane and taxi it to the hangar, transfer the OneWheel to the other plane and taxi to the ramp and OneWheel back to the hangar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMuncy Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 4 hours ago, mike_elliott said: Lotus Super 7, IMO the only real sports car, right @DonMuncy? Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 (edited) https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/compare/BMW-5-Series-vs-Tesla-Model-3_d1628_d2475 Look at all the stats, exterior dimensions, cargo capacity, leg room you name it, they are essentially twins Audi A4 https://www.truecar.com/compare/tesla-model-3-vs-audi-a4/ It would be tough to find more comparable cars, first comparison was long range Tesla, but cars are identical for size etc. I know because I was car shopping, and honestly expected this gas price we have. So what does this tell us? Tells me that building an EV is more complex than merely taking an ICE powertrain out and slapping in an electric motor and a battery, why for example I don’t think electrifying a Mooney would work, because what we think of as simple, ain’t simple really. Edited May 3, 2022 by A64Pilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 26 minutes ago, steingar said: If these guys had any sense they'd make it so you can effortlessly swap the battery. Drain one, land, put in a fresh one. Effortless if you have a forklift. I suspect the batteries are in the wings. It would be a wing swap, it probably could be done, but with all the quick disconnects, it would still take a half an hour or so. I wonder how much a set of battery wings would be? $20000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 8 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: They are called Fangs. They are little casters that lets the OneWheel coast a bit if it nosedives. I'm too old to get it to nosedive, that's for young bucks that try to go to fast. So far it says I have maxed out at 11 MPH. Supposedly it will go over 25! I doubt I'll ever hit that. It is good for going from hangar to hangar at the airport. And when I need to switch planes in the hangar, it saves me 1/2 mile of walking. I just zoom out to the plane on the ramp, throw the OneWheel in the plane and taxi it to the hangar, transfer the OneWheel to the other plane and taxi to the ramp and OneWheel back to the hangar. Neighbor has one and she’s older than me and when I see her on it’s, it’s not going very fast at all. Why did you get the big one and not the little one, it goes 15 mph or so I think, and is lighter and smaller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, DonMuncy said: Absolutely. My friend does the Clifton Hill climb here in AZ. It was Sunday. We didn't make this one. Anyway, there is a Lotus Super 7 that was racing last time I went. It is a cool looking car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 Just now, N201MKTurbo said: Effortless if you have a forklift. I suspect the batteries are in the wings. It would be a wing swap, it probably could be done, but with all the quick disconnects, it would still take a half an hour or so. I wonder how much a set of battery wings would be? $20000? We used to change forklift batteries at work, took only a few minutes, they had big “deans” connectors. I think these airplane batteries are in front and behind the crew, having a heavy thing behind me I don’t think I would like. I’m sure I could develop a slide in tray to mount them, but if you can get to 80% in 20 minutes why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: Neighbor has one and she’s older than me and when I see her on it’s, it’s not going very fast at all. Why did you get the big one and not the little one, it goes 15 mph or so I think, and is lighter and smaller? Mostly for the range. This one is a beast. It weighs 30 Lbs. If you screw up it can get very angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: Effortless if you have a forklift. I suspect the batteries are in the wings. It would be a wing swap, it probably could be done, but with all the quick disconnects, it would still take a half an hour or so. I wonder how much a set of battery wings would be? $20000? Batteries alone may be that much 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 1 minute ago, N201MKTurbo said: Mostly for the range. This one is a beast. It weighs 30 Lbs. If you screw up it can get very angry. My URB-E scooters have a 30ish mile range too, didn’t take long to find out the scooter might, but my butt doesn’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 35 minutes ago, steingar said: If these guys had any sense they'd make it so you can effortlessly swap the battery. Drain one, land, put in a fresh one. Even if they could get it down to being as simple as swapping a couple duracells, it would be 5 mins for the battery change and half an hour for filing FAA paperwork for the alteration. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 IF the EV thing happens to aircraft it will require a lot of rules changes, do you still need a firewall? Maybe for the battery? Or people parachutes just in case the battery lights off? Cause if it does I don’t think your putting it out, apparently they burn like white phosphorus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 1 hour ago, A64Pilot said: Your saying a BMW 5 series and an Audi A4 are apples to potato’s to a Tesla 3, which ICE car do you think is comparable? Build quality, long term reliability, performance, and size? We’ll it looks like an updated Geo Metro but I’ll compare it directly to a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord. What’s the average cost per mile these days, national average including depreciation, insurance, taxes, registration, maintenance, etc…. Guessing it’s over $0.50 a mile. Please explain how your Tesla is going to be sooo much cheaper than buying a Prius at half the cost as you save $0.05 per mile. You honestly remind me of friends and family that keep telling me I’m saving so much money flying my Mooney vs Southwest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 Well, Cape Air is planning to go electric. https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/cape-air-signs-deal-for-75-electric-alice-commuter-aircraft/?MailingID=908&utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Cape+Air+Signs+Deal+For+75+Electric+Alice+Commuter+Aircraft%2C+Spirit+Rejects+JetBlue+Bid&utm_campaign=Cape+Air+Signs+Deal+For+75+Electric+Alice+Commuter+Aircraft%2C+Spirit+Rejects+JetBlue+Bid+-+Tuesday%2C+May+3%2C+2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 13 hours ago, carusoam said: Fortunately, the marketing guys like HP ratings… The tech guys dig torque… ICE engines (Chevy 350s) give a pretty flat torque curve for about 1500rpm… advise shifting at the high end, to come back in the low end, one gear higher… Two shifts, you are going through the timing lights, a 1/4 mile away… in third, at 100mph… Firebird, box stock… nothing fancy… 300hp, 400ft-LBs.. Fuzzy memories only… The electric motors are fantastic! Unfortunately, their fuel system is outrageously heavy… The fuel tank is incredibly small… Tough for both sports cars, and planes…. Corvette guys won’t care so much…. Their sports cars are a bit heavy compared to the Lotus crowd… The added big problem with electric motors in planes vs. cars…. Cars like to use the regeneration… around town… Vs. Highway. Planes barely ever hit the brakes… so we are going to miss the opportunity for regeneration… fortunately… PP thoughts only, I’ve only seen rumors about an electric Corvette… Best regards, -a- Flat means different things to different people... 2002 LT1 2015 BMW 3.0 TDI 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said: My new EV, 35 mile range and it fits in the Mooney! Rich, I commend you for adopting this kind of tech! There are folks in your peer group that are afraid to get up on a ladder and you're flying around with a One Wheel stashed in your Mooney. It's good to see! Edited May 3, 2022 by Shadrach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, Shadrach said: Rich, I commend you for adopting this kind of tech! There are folks in your peer group that are afraid to get up on a ladder and your flying around with a One Wheel stashed in your Mooney. It's good to see! Yea, is like "What's that old guy doing on that OneWheel?" I've gotten pretty good at riding it. I haven't quite mastered going up a curb at an angle, I can go down one OK. Getting off is still a challenge. I have turned on "Easy Stop" which stopped the blood flow. But now I can't go backwards, which I miss. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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