Jump to content

Flying Confidence Level Over Time


201er

Recommended Posts

Is it just me? The more I've been flying the less sense of confidence I carry. Reflecting back on over 17 years of aviating, I've been realizing that I had less concern and felt more adept at carrying out a flight the further I go back.

Now I don't know if it is more attributable to age or flying experience. Inevitably both progress forward together.

Past a certain point in my flying history, I have been seeing a gradual but downward trend in confidence. In the beginning, it is all up up up. You learn something new, you solo, you earn a certificate... you get all these milestones and accomplishments that say "you know what you're doing." However, past a certain point, it seems like it's only the opposite. Something breaks, I have a bad flight, screw something up, lose a friend, read about an accident...

Here's a rough sketch of how I feel my overall flying confidence level has progressed over time. Most of the peaks are represented by milestone accomplishments, dips are scares, and a steady overall downward trend ever since.

Confidence.thumb.jpg.81462d5493b1832f0a33b5365dc522cc.jpg

With time it seems that more and more I discover how much I don't know and how much I am capable of screwing up. Now in the beginning, this is something you are entirely unaware of. But, with experience, I discover naive thinking or unknowing mistakes of times past. Carrying this greater amount of awareness is burdensome. It also makes me comprehend slightly better how much I don't know or have the potential to screw up than back then.

Or perhaps the skills are fading with time? Back at just a few hundred hours flying time, I was ready to launch in any weather, land on the shortest runways. And I was sharp. Or at least it seemed that way. It always seemed like I could do it, no problem. With time, I'm more and more reluctant testing the edge of my envelope.

And it's not for lack of instruction or ratings. I still get regular flight reviews, IPC's, added a rating. Doesn't seem to make a difference. My 10th flight lesson, I probably learned more than in my last 10 flight reviews (or IPC)!

Does this happen to everyone? Does anyone actually get more confident as they get older or gain a lot of flight time?

I'm not really sure if I have a specific question or a point I'm trying to make. Just an observation. Not sure if it's better to be blissfully unaware or to be burdened with progressively greater awareness that erodes at confidence.

Is there an antidote and would I even want one?

Edited by 201er
  • Like 12
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find that my confidence generally declined with hours and age, but increased after training for new ratings.

For instance, I took four knowledge tests and two checkrides in two years for CFI and CFII and after that bout of training I did feel more confident in my skills, for a while.   

A few months ago I began providing instruction 1 day per week in AATDs at the community college and find that 6 hours of instruction given per week enhanced my confidence.  No data on if that actually improved my ability to fly well. 

The Laws of Recency, Repetition, and  Readiness have not been repealed.  

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Love this post. Real, transparent, humble. Traits that will keep you alive. Away from a keyboard, but will respond in detail a little later. In many ways, I'm the same. I started when I was mid-twenties...when did you start?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's probably different for everybody, but in both aviation and racing (and other similar endeavors where complacency can get you hurt) I've found that for me the confidence goes up and down, but usually the way to keep it maximized is just to keep proficient.    I was a very confident racer for many years until I switched cars, and (due to mechanical issues that we were unaware of at the time) I suddenly spent a lot of time flying off track backwards when the car would suddenly swap ends on a corner.   That car killed my confidence, and even after we fixed the problem it took changing cars again before I started getting it back, which took more than a year.

I've had similar swings in aviation, but not as drastic and usually curable just by getting out and flying more and practicing whatever things I felt I was getting bad at.    My main issue now, after I inadvertently spun it once, is getting confidence back practicing stalls in the Mooney.   There's still some anxiety there, even though the spin itself wasn't that big of a deal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, aggiepilot04 said:

Love this post. Real, transparent, humble. Traits that will keep you alive. Away from a keyboard, but will respond in detail a little later. In many ways, I'm the same. I started when I was mid-twenties...when did you start?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Started in gliders at 18, airplanes 20, Mooney 24.

Looking back at my logbook, I had 23 flights in a Piper Arrow before getting my 201, 21 in a Skyhawk, but my goodness I felt like I had mastered those planes. I don't know if they were just that much easier to fly or it was a novice attitude (haven't been back up in them since having a Mooney to find out). But nowadays I can fly that many flights in a couple trips or a few months. I log enough time to make minimums from Private Pilot every time I change my oil! I dunno, flying was a lot easier and more confident back then.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’d add that its not necessarily my confidence that has wained over the years, (when I’m current) its my tolerance for being uncomfortable that has. I fly for fun, I have no need to go voluntarily bounce around in high winds or marginal weather.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1) Age is everything…. At one end, you have sooooo many years to go, nothing is going to take them away…

At the other end… you have so few years left, you fear missing out if things get cut short…


2) Level of responsibility, number of people depending on you, loads your boat as well…. Fly in crummy weather, have the iPad bounce off the ceiling, wonder how you misjudged the weather that bad…. (Stuff that weighs on your confidence)

 

3) The more you know… every little detail about every machine part holding your engine together… you have to get good at stats to keep the equipment failures in perspective….

4) The more you read about other people’s machine failures…. Like a Bravo, flown by intelligent people, on an IR flight plan… snaps the wing in two places and falls to the ground…. Can really weigh on your machine confidence…

5) Anyone close to you have Health issues… people in your cohort having heart-attacks?

6) Is all of your hardware working properly?  Continuous surprise mechanical issues can really bring you down…

 

Congratulations 201er…

1) You have proven yourself to be a human being…

2) Remember humans continuously make mistakes… :)

3) Never let up…

4) Never take things for granted…

5) Always have plan B and C…

6) See if @mooneygirl has any insight… this sounds like a question for her…. :)

7) find out what is killing your confidence, and do more of what builds your confidence… it would be uncomfortable to live in fear…

 

Fly on!

:)

Best regards,

-a-

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

You mean MY hardware, or my airplane's hardware?

Yes!

Stick an O360’s valve or your own heart’s valve…

It may make you rethink a few activities… to improve your current situation… allowing more flying….

If memory is a challenge.  Exercise your Mooney writing skills…. Or it could be a Garmin memory stick that needs to be replaced…

:)

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely an age thing. I don't think its so much a keener awareness of your own mortality but more a lack of confidence brought on by age. We all know we are going to die and hell, if you've made it to at least 60 yrs of age, well the rest are gravy. Don't worry about it and fly within your current ability or confidence level. It will rise and fall jus as the sun and moon :)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, 201er said:

Is it just me? The more I've been flying the less sense of confidence I carry. Reflecting back on over 17 years of aviating, I've been realizing that I had less concern and felt more adept at carrying out a flight the further I go back.

Now I don't know if it is more attributable to age or flying experience. Inevitably both progress forward together.

Past a certain point in my flying history, I have been seeing a gradual but downward trend in confidence. In the beginning, it is all up up up. You learn something new, you solo, you earn a certificate... you get all these milestones and accomplishments that say "you know what you're doing." However, past a certain point, it seems like it's only the opposite. Something breaks, I have a bad flight, screw something up, lose a friend, read about an accident...

Here's a rough sketch of how I feel my overall flying confidence level has progressed over time. Most of the peaks are represented by milestone accomplishments, dips are scares, and a steady overall downward trend ever since.

Confidence.thumb.jpg.81462d5493b1832f0a33b5365dc522cc.jpg

With time it seems that more and more I discover how much I don't know and how much I am capable of screwing up. Now in the beginning, this is something you are entirely unaware of. But, with experience, I discover naive thinking or unknowing mistakes of times past. Carrying this greater amount of awareness is burdensome. It also makes me comprehend slightly better how much I don't know or have the potential to screw up than back then.

Or perhaps the skills are fading with time? Back at just a few hundred hours flying time, I was ready to launch in any weather, land on the shortest runways. And I was sharp. Or at least it seemed that way. It always seemed like I could do it, no problem. With time, I'm more and more reluctant testing the edge of my envelope.

And it's not for lack of instruction or ratings. I still get regular flight reviews, IPC's, added a rating. Doesn't seem to make a difference. My 10th flight lesson, I probably learned more than in my last 10 flight reviews (or IPC)!

Does this happen to everyone? Does anyone actually get more confident as they get older or gain a lot of flight time?

I'm not really sure if I have a specific question or a point I'm trying to make. Just an observation. Not sure if it's better to be blissfully unaware or to be burdened with progressively greater awareness that erodes at confidence.

Is there an antidote and would I even want one?

Happens to the best of the best. Even Hollywood got that one accurate with cougar turning in his wings because he loss the edge. I find also with age you have more to lose. When i was younger i only had myself to worry about and didn’t really own anything. Now i have a wife and kids that I don’t want to orphan and i finally have a good job. Also that wisdom and experience has shown crap breaks and is unreliable add the invincibleness you had in your 20’s and it’s no wonder we question more now. Part of the bold pilots turn i to the old pilots without as much boldness we know our limits. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve been flying professionally for ~30 years and feel the same thing as the OP.  Not as much in the newer/turbine powered work airplane as in the 55 year old Mooney, but it’s still there.  I love knowing everything about the Mooney and how it works, but the more I know about the maintenance and it’s age, the more I see what might not be perfect.  I think ignorance was bliss 25 years ago.

I love flying, but that little nagging feeling that doesn’t seem to leave is a real bitch.  It probably helps keep us alive, but it takes a little bit of the joy out of my flying.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Confidence increases with skill level. Keeping active in flying and training helps. Don't be complacent about anything in flying

Even with 55+ years in this game I still go out and go roundy round at the airport to keep my pattern skills up there. 

Don't accept sloppy flying. Work hard to make the perfect flight (it will never happen). VFR or IFR it doesn't matter

Work at being professional in every aspect of aviation.  It all contributes to confidence. 

Now being older and wiser I don't take the "chances" I once did. No night SE for me In fact I have limited myself to day VFR. Just personal choice on minimums

I've got nothing more to prove, I've got all the time in the world to get there so stopping if I don't like something ahead ain't no big deal. 

Bear in mind that if you are UNDER CONTROL when you touch down (no matter on or off field) you will in all likelihood survive. It happens every day. 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll come from a different viewpoint:

Since I had and recovered from heart failure and also suffered an engine out emergency off field landing - all in the last 4 years (after being out of flying almost 20 years), I've come to realize how short our time is and not to 'waste' opportunities- like flying. Sure, mitigate and prepare as much as we can but, things just happen. I'm thankful each time I get behind the controls knowing I was given a second chance. My heart failure (if not caught in time) would have probably been fatal. I was lucky (my cousin did not catch his, died in his sleep @ the age of 55 - runs in the family). So, I train as much as possible, practice often (weekly in the pattern with ATC). Read, as much as I can about GA accidents and do my best to learn from them. Age gets us all but, I'm doing my best to stay sharp as flying is a diminishing skill if not practiced.

I'm encouraged when I read pilots in their 70s, 80s, and 90s are still flying and are still sharp.

-Don

Edited by hammdo
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today was a fairly windy and gusty day in Tracy, California.  Not unusual after passage of a cold front yesterday.  I had two brothers who bought a C model last week and were looking forward to their first day of transition training.  Based out of San Jose, I flew my plane over there.  It was a little bumpy, but not bad in my plane.  I saw their plane in person for the first time.  It had not been well taken care of.  I checked for an Annual and it was confirmed.  It wasn't done by a Mooney Service Center.  While doing the preflight the sump valve couldn't be completely stopped from leaking on the left tank.  There were no brakes on the right side.  Given the conditions I told them it was not a good day to start the training.  Instead, I took each of them up in my plane for a couple of times around the pattern and demonstrated handling such conditions.  Even with my experience I didn't feel comfortable taking an unfamiliar airplane with people who had never flown a Mooney before up today.

I think I was reasonably uncomfortable flying any airplane for my first 1,000 hours.  I was uncomfortable flying my airplane for the first 100 hours.  But I really wanted to get over that.  My skillset really improved with the CFI and CFII ratings, and was honed when I got my ATP in my airplane.  I kept learning about the weather by ferrying airplanes between Mooney Sales people.  Each flight and enroute weather was different.   I flew to most Homecomings in Kerrville and to Oshkosh 22 times so far.  And then there has been all the learning that has taken place in my to date 6,603 hours of teaching over the past 28 years.  Clarity, I think, comes from experience.  You begin to know more about what you didn't know you didn't know.

I've been flying 55 years and it never gets boring.  In addition to the CFI, CFII, MEI, ATP, Basic and Advanced ground instructor, and CE525S Type rating, I got the Wright Brothers Master Pilot award a few years ago.  To further increase my knowledge, I've done the requirements for the Master CFI for the past 20 years (going on 22 this year).   Participating in these challenges has brought me better understanding and improved comfort level.  The new technology has accelerated that process because it's so much easier to decide when it is safe to go and when it's best to stay on the ground in addition to being just plain fun to use.

From my perspective, even if near middle age, you are just at the beginning of your flying adventures.  You have more perspective to properly guide your decisions.  With that added perspective you are in a position to make better decisions that lead to a higher level of comfort in your flying.  Carry on my friend.

  • Like 13
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike, I think you’re experiencing 2 things at about the same time in your life.  First, at 35 years old with a wife and child, you have more to lose than you did at 18.  You’re not necessarily losing confidence, but your age and experience are making you question things in ways and for reasons that you never did before.  This is very normal.  It’s why 18 year olds pursue extraordinarily risking behaviors and middle aged people usually don’t.

The second factor involves your experience level.  As you gain experience, you start realizing all the things that can go wrong.  My guess is that you’re thinking more about the unknowns, particularly things like a catastrophic failure of some component or bizarrely unforecast weather.  Before, you didn’t know what you didn’t know.  Now you do.

The upside to this is that it’s making you a safer pilot.  I found your graph very interesting, because it’s so similar to another graph I’ve seen often in the last 33 years:

 

DA1ADE0D-829B-4664-9292-996A2FA36D9C.jpeg

23E4551F-BE0A-44E5-B09F-9ACD416F06BF.png

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am going to state some sort of different things.

1) young and brash is a thing.  When I was young and brash - I "borrowed" my step father's Porsche 911 - which even then was an older model.  But still a fun car.  I was a really a "standard model crazy teenage boy behind the wheel of too much car" at the age of 18.  I remember scary the crap out of myself and my friend driving around a "corner" on the CO parkway (Rock Creek Park, MD) on an empty road divided highway designed for 55mph speed limit - and seems like a gradual turn at 55...well I can tell you that at 135mph....those tires were like really gripping and barely holding on.  I am here living and breathing today by the grace of God that the car didn't get up to 140mph by the time I hit that turn because I am pretty sure the traction would have given away - but my friend and I lived past 18 years old that day.  There was a kid 2 years above my boys age group about 10 years ago - similar scenario - didn't survive their joy ride.

So if I had owned too much plane at that age - would I have done some pretty dumb stuff in a plane, skilled, fearless and stupid.  Likely yes.

2) Somehow confidence builds over time the longer nothing bad happened in your past, and perhaps the longer you saw nothing bad happening to your friends or people you know.  So that's just accumulated luck gives a sense of confidence.  That's a natural human reaction of how we psychologically assess relatively dangerous but relatively low probability events.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not sure whether this is relevant or not … but the past 25 years have seen a massive change in the amount of information available to a light plane pilot. We’ve gone from VOR-based navigation with a simple OBS indicator to area navigation with moving maps and datalink, real-time traffic and weather, and often a whole GUI just for an engine monitor. 

On the one hand, all of this information can help a competent pilot make good, informed decisions. But it’s also fodder for self-doubt. When you’re flying an airway with a paper weather briefing in your lap that you wrote on a notepad from a phone call two hours ago, you’re very very focused on flying the plane. But with all the real-time data competing for your attention, it’s easy to start second-guessing decisions, and find yourself distracted by “what ifs.”

Now don’t get me wrong - I love all the data, and wouldn’t want to give it up. But I bounced around in the soup with a VOR and chicken-scratch briefing before we had all this fun stuff, and while I don’t think I’d describe that experience as “confident,” it was definitely “committed” in a way that we don’t often experience today. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.