MBDiagMan Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 3 hours ago, Z W said: Post your TAS and GPH on Mooneyspace, and within a few hours, someone will be along to post better numbers. It's the way of things. Yep! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schinderhannes Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 21 hours ago, Mooneymite said: And yes, my C easily goes 200 knots climbing on a hot day. while burning 6.4357 gal/hr.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 On 3/15/2022 at 1:26 PM, MBDiagMan said: This all should work in a perfect world. The question is: how long can we depend on this perfect world you outline? The perfect world changes annually…. just when you can see the end of the tunnel, another tunnel shows up… I think I posted a list around here of each uneasy situation that occurred over the last 20years… there was one year that only had Pluto getting declassified as a planet…. Other things like the Great Recession… only lasted a year… its fall-out went on for a few more years… That list didn’t include things like who owns Mooney that year, or if Mooney was open for business… If a perfect world is required…. Yikes, would need to work on a good plan B, C, and D….. Good or bad… nothing lasts forever… -mom Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 A good wax job will net another 10 kts TAS ! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 On 3/15/2022 at 12:27 PM, Andy95W said: I’m not sure about Hank’s airplane (or Gus’ ) but my M20C with 1/2 fuel will do an actual 149 kts at 8500 MSL, full throttle, leaned for best power. Verified by a 3-way run and using the formula for the “Horseshoe Heading Technique” specified in the paper referenced with the link, below. https://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/horseshoe_heading/horseshoehead_screen.pdf At 2500’ MSL, full power, mixture rich, 2600 rpm, my Garmin GPS/G5 says I’m getting 151 kts TAS. Where does your CG sit for this speed run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 Half fuel tanks, just myself, so pretty light and slightly forward CG. From what I’ve seen, aft CG doesn’t make as much difference as lighter weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 On 3/11/2022 at 2:20 PM, pirate said: I wasn't even thinking of selling but last week I almost sold my 70 C. While in for my yearly maintenance ( a local many at my airport know) saw it and offered me a serious local cash offer for exactly 100K, he was persistent and I almost said yes but I got to thinking I did this plane up for me and even if I sold it a 100K does not buy much these days, maybe a worn out J for a logical move up but it would most likely need another 100K + in improvement to be equivalent condition, appearance and avionics to what I have. Crazy how hot the market is, but I’m sure as this year progresses the economy will tighten up and things will reverse, will see………. I understand the feeling. I have someone right now begging me to accept $45K for my Cessna 140. PreCovid I would probably have had trouble getting $25K for it. I would like to have the money but if I take it, I will never have another fun plane and the money will just be money. My Mooney would probably bring $100K but then I wouldn’t have a traveler. I hope that both of us don’t look up in a year or two wishing that we had sold our planes. The economy seems to be on thin ice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted March 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 29 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said: I understand the feeling. I have someone right now begging me to accept $45K for my Cessna 140. PreCovid I would probably have had trouble getting $25K for it. I would like to have the money but if I take it, I will never have another fun plane and the money will just be money. My Mooney would probably bring $100K but then I wouldn’t have a traveler. I hope that both of us don’t look up in a year or two wishing that we had sold our planes. The economy seems to be on thin ice. My motto: buy high, sell low. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 10:07 AM, A64Pilot said: I’ve seen similar cycles over the last 20 yrs with Ag plane’s. Whenever Commodity prices increase they are in demand, when they tank you can’t give one away. Then there was the great corn rush when the federal Government mandated ETH to be added to fuel and any kind of old Ag plane was drug out or retirement and put up for sale to spray the corn, Ag pilots from around the Country flew to Iowa for work, and Iowa farmland prices were insane. ‘Many thought the corn thing was permeant and in fact would always continue to expand. I expect to hear soon that there will be another push to grow corn for for fuel? Years ago I was told by the local Chevron Jobber that it took $4 a gl for gas for ETH to make sense. Less than $4 a gl and the alcohol cost more then the fuel it was meant to replace, I don’t know if that number included the fact that ETH is less energy dense than gasoline of if it was a simple gl for gl. But I’ve never seen anything like this, was it like this in the 70’s just before the huge inflation? My take is all of the free and cheap money is driving this, people will pay $50,000 for a car if because of the very low interest rates the payments are relatively low. I assume prices will crash when inflation robs spending power and interest rates go sky high to control inflation, if and only if whoever is in charge is brave enough to drive up interest rates. So maybe before long that 80K C will be a 20K C? No! It wasn’t like this in the seventies. The government wasn’t pouring money into the hands of the public in those days. Well they were, but even adjusted for inflation only a fraction of what has been handed out since Covid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 Oddly, The economy isn’t on thin ice as much as it looks… yet… Employment continues to improve… post the whole Covid era… Interest rates are near zero still….. a problem for the inflationistas…. We are back to gambling on the fed… interest rates need to go up to stem inflation… How fast and how much they go up… is a technical call…. Does the fed handle this with aplomb… and create a ‘soft landing’? Or do they make bold statements and raise the rates ‘on autopilot’? As long as everyone is going back to work… the ice isn’t so thin… As far as supply chain issues go… they are coming back in line pretty quickly… The waves in supply that got started by Covid… will take a long time to get smoothed back out… Serious Covid health issues in the US are continuing to decline…. And the healthcare systems continue to improve…. Including identifying new Covid risks… and responses… World politics… probably can’t sell a Mooney directly into Russia at this time or in the near future… most of us wouldn’t have sold their Mooney there anyways… One thing that really stands out…. How the economy and the world Stock markets… aren’t very well connected… The economy continues to grow… Inflation continues to grow… Inflation usually is pretty close to economic growth… best to have some, a small number bigger than 2%… Some companies are affected by interest rates more than others… Expect that all of the unknowns… that have caused the markets to slide…. Are becoming more known… The first interest rate hike is in the books as of last week… expect a few more as the months go by… The markets have shown a pause in their downward momentum… many of the really interest sensitive companies have been shaken pretty hard…. Keep an eye on earnings season… to see how the interest rates really effect earnings at the individual company level… Its been a long time since the Great Recession… but that doesn’t mean another recession has to be here soon… Technology expansion has done a great thing at keeping prices down… there are more job openings than people to fill them… looking forward to Web 3.0…. If you ever wanted to be a pro pilot… now would be the time to see who is hiring and setting up training… I’ve seen a couple companies promoting what they are doing to bring pilots on board lately… hundreds of pilots each year projected… Looking backwards… the S&P500 has doubled its growth rate above its usual 10% per year… for the last two years… up until the Dec drop… If you used to think predicting the weather was really hard… look how good weather prediction is lately… I bet the fed reserve has hired a few weather prediction modelers to better determine interest rate hikes… like we have never seen before… It can’t possibly be a bunch of aged males sitting around a board room table, smoking cigarettes, and looking at hand drawn dot plots any more… can it? What makes you feel like the economy is on thin ice? PP thoughts only, not a leading edge economist… All stuff I heard while reading MS…. Go CNBC! Have one Mooney… Buy and hodl…. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0TreeLemur Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 hours ago, carusoam said: I bet the fed reserve has hired a few weather prediction modelers to better determine interest rate hikes… like we have never seen before… It can’t possibly be a bunch of aged males sitting around a board room table, smoking cigarettes, and looking at hand drawn dot plots any more… can it? Predicting weather is easy in comparison, at least out to 5-10 days or so when the butterfly effect and numerical diffusion starts to take over. There's a reason they call Economics the "dismal science". In the stock market, it's Machine Learning and high frequency algorithmic trading. We are having trouble hiring recent PhD's in AI/ML because the financial sector is hoovering them all up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 Lots of good thoughts above, but interest rates going up will be different this time. With a 30 Trillion dollar national debt, the debt service costs will be tremendous. The out of control debt will result in the chickens coming home to roost. Sooner or later we will have to pay. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 I first saw the debt clock pop up in NYC back in the early 80s… It’s number was much smaller then… Its nice that they break out the value for each “family”… So, as a young guy with no dough, you have a logical feeling for how big that number really is… Surprised they didn’t say each person… Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted March 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 8 hours ago, MBDiagMan said: Sooner or later we will have to pay. Apparently, no one in congress believes this, though some espouse it at election time. The truth is that this concept of pay-back went out the window with the creation of the federal reserve which (like God) created wealth out of nothing, or as some would say, much out of little. A true "multiplication of the loaves and fishes". Ever wonder why we send fiscally responsible conservatives to Congress, but after a few years they're borrowing and spending just like the people they were sent to correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) There is a theory that debt is irrelevant, a few years ago my financial advisor tried explaining it, I just looked at him like he had a horn growing out of his forehead, he used Japan as an example, apparently they carry huge debt, yet it’s not hurt them? https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-love-of-debt-offers-a-view-of-u-s-future-11629640800 Edited March 21, 2022 by A64Pilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 20 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: There is a theory that debt is irrelevant, a few years ago my financial advisor tried explaining it, I just looked at him like he had a horn growing out of his forehead, he used Japan as an example, apparently they carry huge debt, yet it’s not hurt them? https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-love-of-debt-offers-a-view-of-u-s-future-11629640800 Japan had a huge recession in the early 90s. The Japanese company that I was working for then abandoned their lifetime employment commitment, closed plants and even moved HQ to a lower-cost area. It was really ugly for them! And led directly to me changing employers . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 Yeah, I don’t understand it, don’t recommended it, but apparently there is this new “math” that says debt is irrelevant, so throw that out there and what do you think politicians are going to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 The slope is getting slippery here_ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 If I don't get a partner before annual I'll be selling. Boy do threads like this start me thinking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLRDMD Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 They are asking $115k for this "C". Prices are insane and money is worthless. https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/212683481/1969-mooney-m20c-ranger-piston-single-aircraft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 10 hours ago, cliffy said: The slope is getting slippery here_ Hmm, it doesn't matter how slippery or sticky the slope is...when the slope we are talking about is a CLIFF! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 They are asking $115k for this "C". Prices are insane and money is worthless. https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/212683481/1969-mooney-m20c-ranger-piston-single-aircraftMy first thought when I used to see a plane so badly overpriced was the wife was forcing her husband to sell…I gotta think that $6+ avgas will put bring prices back down somewhat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted March 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, KLRDMD said: They are asking $115k for this "C". Prices are insane and money is worthless. https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/212683481/1969-mooney-m20c-ranger-piston-single-aircraft These prices make me believe that those old, derelict Mooneys we see at airports could fly again! Buy that derelict cheap and $100K might make room for a total restoration...maybe. The line between repairing and parting out a gear-up may have moved. From Barnstormers: 1961 MOONEY M20C • $19,000 • FOR SALE • Gear up landing. Aspen EDF 1000, GNX375, GTR 225, B-11 Acutrak, B-12 Accuflite. no engine.in VA • Contact..... However, with all these "asking prices", I'm not sure that people are actually paying them. Edited March 22, 2022 by Mooneymite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcmtl Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 On 3/21/2022 at 11:06 AM, KLRDMD said: They are asking $115k for this "C". Prices are insane and money is worthless. https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/212683481/1969-mooney-m20c-ranger-piston-single-aircraft At that price, makes it worth it to upgrade. id say 115k for a C would need fresh OH’d engine, new paint, new avionics and an AP. if you can pick one up needing all that for 20-30k you may be able to upgrade everything, fly it for a bit, and still be in the money. the J starts at 120k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 On 3/22/2022 at 7:44 AM, Mooneymite said: However, with all these "asking prices", I'm not sure that people are actually paying them. With boats there is a site called sold boats.com, if your a broker and pay the subscription you can look up the actual price a boat sold for, my Broker was able to see what the seller of my boat actually paid for example, maybe that exists for aircraft? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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