New Bravo Owner

[IgorD]

Hello,

 

New to me 2000 Bravo.  What a fun airplane.  Lots of new features to learn compared to my 1968 G Model.  I had put a deposit on a g3x system and g500 autopilot that would be going in first week of April.  I would be looking to sell king KFC225 Auto pilot with servos, Garmin 330ES transponder, JPI700, HSI, all steam gauges and original engine instruments.  Everything is in good working order.  Please DM if interested parts should be available early to mid-May.  I will be posting an ad in classifieds once everything is out of the plane.      

Thank you. 

img (3).jfif img (4).jfif

[rbp]

just FYI -- the new AP is the GFC500 (the G500 is a display)

 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, IgorD said:

Hello,

 

New to me 2000 Bravo.  What a fun airplane.  Lots of new features to learn compared to my 1968 G Model.  I had put a deposit on a g3x system and g500 autopilot that would be going in first week of April.  I would be looking to sell king KFC225 Auto pilot with servos, Garmin 330ES transponder, JPI700, HSI, all steam gauges and original engine instruments.  Everything is in good working order.  Please DM if interested parts should be available early to mid-May.  I will be posting an ad in classifieds once everything is out of the plane.      

Thank you. 

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Congratulations on your Bravo! I see you're in the Twin Cities. I grew up about 200 mi. N of there (KGPZ). I still try to get up there once every summer and catch a Twins game on the way through. I owned three different Bravos over the years so if there's any questions I can answer please let me know. Nice airplane!

I was able to get your pictures to open if I run them through another program, but you might insert them as jpgs. 

You have a lot of nice things in your panel already. The Moritz gauges all seem to be working in your picture, which is rare at this age, so someone with a failing Moritz gauge cluster on a Bravo will snap those up. The previous owners who put in the GTN 750/650 must have moved the KFC225 over to the right. If it was me I'd want that or the GFC500 in the center stack. I think it's even part of the approval to have it in the center stack. To help make room it's possible to put your Mooney annunciator to the left above the G3X or to the right and wire in a Master Caution light on the left. Of course the audio panel could be moved to the right or replaced with a remote audio panel. Anxious to see it when it's completed!

 

[IgorD]

51 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Congratulations on your Bravo! I see you're in the Twin Cities. I grew up about 200 mi. N of there (KGPZ). I still try to get up there once every summer and catch a Twins game on the way through. I owned three different Bravos over the years so if there's any questions I can answer please let me know. Nice airplane!

I was able to get your pictures to open if I run them through another program, but you might insert them as jpgs. 

You have a lot of nice things in your panel already. The Moritz gauges all seem to be working in your picture, which is rare at this age, so someone with a failing Moritz gauge cluster on a Bravo will snap those up. The previous owners who put in the GTN 750/650 must have moved the KFC225 over to the right. If it was me I'd want that or the GFC500 in the center stack. I think it's even part of the approval to have it in the center stack. To help make room it's possible to put your Mooney annunciator to the left above the G3X or to the right and wire in a Master Caution light on the left. Of course the audio panel could be moved to the right or replaced with a remote audio panel. Anxious to see it when it's completed!

 

Attached are pics in a different format.  Everything works as it should.  I found old pics of this panel and they had dual 430's and auto pilot in the center stack but it was moved when 750/650 was added.  Auto pilot control panel will go on the left side under G3x where current TKS annunciator is as I did notice it is a little out of the way when things get busy in the air.  I do like my audio panel in its spot I feel that it makes a clean look in the center stack. 

 

What do you find your oil level the be at before it gets blown out the bottom?  My mechanic stated keep at least 8qt at all times.   

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, IgorD said:

Attached are pics in a different format.  Everything works as it should.  I found old pics of this panel and they had dual 430's and auto pilot in the center stack but it was moved when 750/650 was added.  Auto pilot control panel will go on the left side under G3x where current TKS annunciator is as I did notice it is a little out of the way when things get busy in the air.  I do like my audio panel in its spot I feel that it makes a clean look in the center stack. 

 

What do you find your oil level the be at before it gets blown out the bottom?  My mechanic stated keep at least 8qt at all times.   

 

 

 

1) That will be convenient to have the A/P controls close to you.  The extra few months with all of the delays lately could work to your advantage. Garmin just came out with a new service bulletin on the servos for the GFC500 on Monday. Hopefully this gives them a chance to get it figured out. Flying it a few months after you buy it also isn't a bad idea before you make a lot of changes. It gives you a chance to get used to the airplane before it goes right in the shop but also allows you to put a lot of thought into exactly what and where you want everything. If it's working correctly your KFC225 is a very capable autopilot. The King servos seem much more robust than the GFC500 servos.

2) On the first Bravo I bought in 1996 the shop would do an oil change with 12 quarts and it would blow the 1st few out on the first trip, and I would put more in, and it would blow it out.  Someone finally told me not to go by the max capacity, but that I should find the level it likes to settle at.  My last Bravo settled at 8. If I put more than that it blew it out but stayed at 8 for a long time. Usually only needed one quart between changes doing it that way. On the Acclaim that I bought a few months back the max is 8 (on the Continental) and it stays at 8 or very close to it. 

You could see if your engine stabilizes at 7, but I don 't think I'd go much below that. The extra oil lines on the Bravo take up quite a bit of oil, maybe as much as a quart or more by themselves. 

[carusoam]

What a great machine!

The PO really liked her… she started with everything and got nice additions to the end…. 

He had a thing for analog stuff… like the clock on the yoke…. 

 

Good luck with the next steps!  There’s always next steps…

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

Some other thoughts for a new Bravo owner  . . .

Bravo owners have shared info and recognized that if you run by the POH you will be replacing cylinders, turbos and exhaust systems much more often. 

You want to keep your CHTs below 400 for sure, preferably 380 or lower. 

1600 is the highest I would go on TIT for many reasons, not the least of which is that the TIT temp probe itself gets burnt up rapidly at temps higher than that, giving you a low reading, making things even worse.

If you're hoping for engine longevity, your cruise combination of MP and RPM should cap out at 53. (Example 29/24 is a good cruise setting.) If you run 34/24, which is basically max power, and try to lean out for low fuel flow you will burn up cylinders and exhaust systems. Carefully examine the exhaust system on every oil change, look for any cracks. There have been a few fatal fires where the exhaust burns through the fire wall in seconds.

If you're not able to keep 380 CHTs at a 29/24 setting, the engine baffles need to be looked at.

[IgorD]

Prior owner wanted to fly this plane to Europe that is why all the stuff went in. He even put a Garmin GSR56 to be able to communicate and receive weather since ADSB is/was not available in Europe at that time.  To us here in US it’s just a 10amu paperweight.  He did run it quite hot as I see cylinders replaced in the logs.  I have only started flying this plane in January and have not had any issues keeping the cylinders in low 300’s. Pics are from prior the sales add.  Thanks for all the advice. I have yet to use TKS but hear it is good to cycle it at least once a month to keep fluid primed.  Any comments on that?

[rbp]

Hi Igor --

Bravo on your new airplane!

I also have one, which had a very similar stack to yours, except with 530/430.

Its in the shop right now getting a G3X panel.

My preference was for an all-Garmin minimalist style:

1. remote garmin audio panel (controlled from 750)
2. remote garmin txp (controlled from 750)
3. GFC500 head at the *top* of the center stack
4. G5 in the upper RH corner of the left panel

here's a link to my new panel thread

A lot of the items I removed have been sold, as you can see here: https://flamingo-parakeet-cnj9.squarespace.com/

--B

[LANCECASPER]

5 minutes ago, IgorD said:

Prior owner wanted to fly this plane to Europe that is why all the stuff went in. He even put a Garmin GSR56 to be able to communicate and receive weather since ADSB is/was not available in Europe at that time.  To us here in US it’s just a 10amu paperweight.  He did run it quite hot as I see cylinders replaced in the logs.  I have only started flying this plane in January and have not had any issues keeping the cylinders in low 300’s. Pics are from prior the sales add.  Thanks for all the advice. I have yet to use TKS but hear it is good to cycle it at least once a month to keep fluid primed.  Any comments on that?

I haven't had TKS on a Bravo but I had it on an Encore and yes the recommendation is to exercise it once a month. If I still lived in MN I would have TKS.

[PaulM]

Oil is listed as 10Qt total capacity.  This is what we fill my Bravo up to and it spits out none of it. 

It then burns about 1 qt every 5 hours, so I let it drift down to 7 qt,  (15 hours) add one, then let it finally drift to 6 right in time for the 25 hour oil change.   If the last 5 hours are long X-C where I can't watch the levels, then I'll toss in another qt. 

Any extra oil consumption over the normally expected amount indicates a leak, and I have had to tighten up the oil injection lines twice.  the 1st time was accompanied by at least a doubling of consumption. 

As for TKS, I run that every 2-3 months and that has been fine, it all depends on how well your panels wet out.. if they don't like to completely wet, then you want to run it more often to help with that. 

[IgorD]

2 hours ago, rbp said:

Hi Igor --

Bravo on your new airplane!

I also have one, which had a very similar stack to yours, except with 530/430.

Its in the shop right now getting a G3X panel.

My preference was for an all-Garmin minimalist style:

1. remote garmin audio panel (controlled from 750)
2. remote garmin txp (controlled from 750)
3. GFC500 head at the *top* of the center stack
4. G5 in the upper RH corner of the left panel

here's a link to my new panel thread

A lot of the items I removed have been sold, as you can see here: https://flamingo-parakeet-cnj9.squarespace.com/

--B

Great to see similar project how long were you quoted to be in the shop?  My installer stated 6 weeks for G3x, G5, GFC500 and GTX345 transponder.  Plane will not go in to shop unless everything is on hand.  Hopefully that will minimize my down time.   

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, PaulM said:

Oil is listed as 10Qt total capacity.  This is what we fill my Bravo up to and it spits out none of it. 

It then burns about 1 qt every 5 hours, so I let it drift down to 7 qt,  (15 hours) add one, then let it finally drift to 6 right in time for the 25 hour oil change.   If the last 5 hours are long X-C where I can't watch the levels, then I'll toss in another qt. 

Any extra oil consumption over the normally expected amount indicates a leak, and I have had to tighten up the oil injection lines twice.  the 1st time was accompanied by at least a doubling of consumption. 

As for TKS, I run that every 2-3 months and that has been fine, it all depends on how well your panels wet out.. if they don't like to completely wet, then you want to run it more often to help with that. 

You are absolutely correct 10 quarts on the TIO-540-AF1B, not 12. I had a V-12 Jag that had a 12 qt. capacity  . .  amazing how the mind starts to go . . lol

I also remember when they would fly a Bravo to Europe for delivery they would start out with 12. 

[rbp]

1 hour ago, IgorD said:

Great to see similar project how long were you quoted to be in the shop?  My installer stated 6 weeks for G3x, G5, GFC500 and GTX345 transponder.  Plane will not go in to shop unless everything is on hand.  Hopefully that will minimize my down time.   

about 8 weeks. i had a lot of other things done as well

[Boilermonkey]

@LANCECASPER Do you have a copy of the Garmin service bulletin on the GFC500 servos?   A friend of mine has been battling that issue for over a year with him M20J, I hope finally resolved. @chan65

[LANCECASPER]

42 minutes ago, Boilermonkey said:

@LANCECASPER Do you have a copy of the Garmin service bulletin on the GFC500 servos?   A friend of mine has been battling that issue for over a year with him M20J, I hope finally resolved. @chan65

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/aviationalerts/service-bulletin-22016-rev-a-gsa-28-servo-mod-1/

[1Germaican]

Welcome Igor!  I just bought a Bravo last September and I am enjoying it thoroughly.  I too have a G3X touch and GFC500.   Great combo!

[IgorD]

6 hours ago, 1Germaican said:

Welcome Igor!  I just bought a Bravo last September and I am enjoying it thoroughly.  I too have a G3X touch and GFC500.   Great combo!

Thanks.  Every time I fly it like it more and more.  I was surprised how heavy it is when moving it on the ground compared to G model though.  Maybe time to shop for a new power tug as one I have struggles to get it moving especially when I have chains on.  

[affricate]

On 2/10/2022 at 12:44 PM, IgorD said:

Hello,

 

New to me 2000 Bravo.  What a fun airplane.  Lots of new features to learn compared to my 1968 G Model.  I had put a deposit on a g3x system and g500 autopilot that would be going in first week of April.  I would be looking to sell king KFC225 Auto pilot with servos, Garmin 330ES transponder, JPI700, HSI, all steam gauges and original engine instruments.  Everything is in good working order.  Please DM if interested parts should be available early to mid-May.  I will be posting an ad in classifieds once everything is out of the plane.      

Thank you. 

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I own a 1989 bravo! They're so much fun to fly. Congratulations to you, beautiful machine.