Nukemzzz Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 Annual time for 34X...I've not been flying too much as I wait on medical, but need to keep her airworthy and ready for go time. (I just had to pay for another year of Insurance as well... apparently letting the insurance lapse would not be a good thing but it double in price for me this year) At this annual I'm thinking about adjusting the interconnect. My CFI thinks it's currently ok so that's why I've not addressed it before but it sure seems like it can be improved. If I remember correctly, if I level and trim and stabilize first.... then make a right turn, I need right rudder (to maintain coordination), so far so good. If I instead make a left turn, I once again need a little right rudder. Pretty sure this isn't normal for this plane. I suspect the interconnect bungee is too tight for the left hand turn and too lose for the right hand turn. Is there a procedure for adjusting these or would I need to take it to a Mooney Service Center for this level of tweaking? Sorry for being MIA. Lots of things went down in 2021 and I'm still only a Mooney owner and not yet it's pilot. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 In straight and level flight is the ball centered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, RLCarter said: In straight and level flight is the ball centered? Yes, it seems to track ok and coordinated while SL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 i wonder if your motor mounts are sagging and squishing to the point of causing excess down or left thrust that is causing problems in the turn..... does it get worse with excess g load?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 The springs don't have adjustments. The amount of rudder needed is related to airspeed (rudder effectiveness) and power setting (torque effects). Properly rigged, the Mooney rudder is offset about 1 degree to the right to balance torque effects in cruise. It's not going to be correct at other speeds which is why we have to hold right rudder in slow flight and left rudder in a dive. During a steady turn, the ailerons should be pretty close to neutral so the interconnect springs are not really in the picture. The purpose of the springs is primarily to meet the certification requirement to lift a wing with rudder input and secondarily to reduce adverse yaw effect when rolling into and out of a turn. Skip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Browncbr1 said: i wonder if your motor mounts are sagging and squishing to the point of causing excess down or left thrust that is causing problems in the turn..... does it get worse with excess g load?.... good thought but it actually has new lord mounts and a remanned mount frame from a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 hours ago, PT20J said: The springs don't have adjustments. The amount of rudder needed is related to airspeed (rudder effectiveness) and power setting (torque effects). Properly rigged, the Mooney rudder is offset about 1 degree to the right to balance torque effects in cruise. It's not going to be correct at other speeds which is why we have to hold right rudder in slow flight and left rudder in a dive. During a steady turn, the ailerons should be pretty close to neutral so the interconnect springs are not really in the picture. The purpose of the springs is primarily to meet the certification requirement to lift a wing with rudder input and secondarily to reduce adverse yaw effect when rolling into and out of a turn. Skip So I had the purpose backwards. I hadn’t considered the Ailerons being neutral while in the turn… So any thoughts on why I need a little right rudder during a left turn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 31 minutes ago, Nukemzzz said: So I had the purpose backwards. I hadn’t considered the Ailerons being neutral while in the turn… So any thoughts on why I need a little right rudder during a left turn? I would guess that the rudder is out of rig because you say you need right rudder in the right turn and less right rudder in the left turn. If everything was rigged right you might need a little right rudder in the right turn and a little left rudder in the left turn. This is because even though the lift from the two wings is the same in a steady bank, the outside wing is travelling a little faster and creating a little more drag causing a yaw to the outside of the turn. So it is normal to need perhaps a slight amount of rudder in the direction of the turn. But in your case, everything seems biased to needing more right rudder. Before trying to adjust anything though, I would read this article and perform the suggested flight test and inspections. If I found anything amiss, I would take the airplane to a shop that is familiar with setting up Mooneys because it's pretty easy to mess things up if someone doesn't know what they are doing. Skip https://www.knr-inc.com/shop-talk-articles.html?id=75:201407-control-rigging&catid=25 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 See if you can go flying in somebody else’s Mooney…. And invite them to fly in yours…. There are so many things going on at one time… I don’t think I ever felt the bungees…. Of course, if you rely on the bungees to do their thing… and not use the pedals…. Know that 40yr old springs don’t work the same as new springs…. Now…more important… what medical issue is holding you back? We have many people that have had medical issues, got SIs, and are back flying…. Some even have SODAs…. Many have also gone basic med… Really important… don’t fail a class III medical… that will keep you from going Basic med… PP thoughts only, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 5 hours ago, carusoam said: See if you can go flying in somebody else’s Mooney…. And invite them to fly in yours…. There are so many things going on at one time… I don’t think I ever felt the bungees…. Of course, if you rely on the bungees to do their thing… and not use the pedals…. Know that 40yr old springs don’t work the same as new springs…. Now…more important… what medical issue is holding you back? We have many people that have had medical issues, got SIs, and are back flying…. Some even have SODAs…. Many have also gone basic med… Really important… don’t fail a class III medical… that will keep you from going Basic med… PP thoughts only, -a- I’ve yet to pass my first medical. The main issue is how slow each cycle is. For example I last sent FAA medical what they asked for early October. Still waiting on a reply. If it’s like the last cycles they will say “this isn’t a fail, but we need you to do this next thing now”. It takes a month to see a doctor, or whatever, then it’s 2-3 months before I get their reply. There are couple of things that made my medical challenging things that didn’t occur to me until I filled out out that first application and realized that they may not let me be a pilot (a few weeks after I bought the plane and flew it home. lol) I shouldn’t document my medial stuff on here though. All that can be done is done. I called AOPA and they say there isn’t anymore to do and just be thankful I’ve not been denied. I’ve spent about $7000 and 2 years now trying to get my medical. About $9000 in plane insurance premiums (3 years paid now). About $40,000 on the plane’s first annual and maintenance for two years. Plus purchase price. I have 80hrs of flight training making “let’s get an airplane” one of the worst financial, and most frustrating, decisions I’ve ever made. Lol But I’m not giving up. When something like this tries to not go my way I double down and press on. Now…if they do deny me in the end , then this is mostly sunk costs that result in a “funny” story I get to tell my kids about how they need to take out student loans for college because daddy tried to be a pilot once. Lmao 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 9 hours ago, PT20J said: I would guess that the rudder is out of rig because you say you need right rudder in the right turn and less right rudder in the left turn. If everything was rigged right you might need a little right rudder in the right turn and a little left rudder in the left turn. This is because even though the lift from the two wings is the same in a steady bank, the outside wing is travelling a little faster and creating a little more drag causing a yaw to the outside of the turn. So it is normal to need perhaps a slight amount of rudder in the direction of the turn. But in your case, everything seems biased to needing more right rudder. Before trying to adjust anything though, I would read this article and perform the suggested flight test and inspections. If I found anything amiss, I would take the airplane to a shop that is familiar with setting up Mooneys because it's pretty easy to mess things up if someone doesn't know what they are doing. Skip https://www.knr-inc.com/shop-talk-articles.html?id=75:201407-control-rigging&catid=25 Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcmtl Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 How were you able to get your pilot's license without the medical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 6 hours ago, Jcmtl said: How were you able to get your pilot's license without the medical? I don’t yet have it. I have 80hrs of training. I’ve been ready to solo for about 16months. I spend most of my free time reading aviation training manuals and watching training videos. I’ll be more ready to go than the average person if the go time ever comes. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcmtl Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Damn, and whats the issue with the medical if you don’t mind me asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Jcmtl said: Damn, and whats the issue with the medical if you don’t mind me asking? Not something I’d like to post about publicly. Let’s just say that it’s not a big deal for normal life and land driving so it didn’t occur to me that it would be a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond J1 Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 I imagine it would be better to get your pilot's license and then carry out 200 to 500 flight hours on this aircraft before considering changing the roll/yaw interconnection setting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Wow that really is frustrating having that much trouble getting your class III medical, and trust me I feel your pain. In 2004 I had a similar issue and delays due to an abnormal but benign thyroid lab ended up having to jump thru a bunch of hoops to get my medical so I have walked in your shoes, and although it was only a couple months it did result in a thyroid nodule biopsy. I did get the Special Issuance but that was dropped after the first renewal long long ago. Since then when my flying has inspired others to get training I always use my story as a cautionary tale and insist they get the medical before doing anything else. I saved a friend a lot of frustration but most have no problem. When you get your medical, and you will, please use your experience to help advise others while you enjoy 34X 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 5:53 AM, Nukemzzz said: I’ve yet to pass my first medical. The main issue is how slow each cycle is. For example I last sent FAA medical what they asked for early October. Still waiting on a reply. If it’s like the last cycles they will say “this isn’t a fail, but we need you to do this next thing now”. It takes a month to see a doctor, or whatever, then it’s 2-3 months before I get their reply. There are couple of things that made my medical challenging things that didn’t occur to me until I filled out out that first application and realized that they may not let me be a pilot (a few weeks after I bought the plane and flew it home. lol) I shouldn’t document my medial stuff on here though. All that can be done is done. I called AOPA and they say there isn’t anymore to do and just be thankful I’ve not been denied. I’ve spent about $7000 and 2 years now trying to get my medical. About $9000 in plane insurance premiums (3 years paid now). About $40,000 on the plane’s first annual and maintenance for two years. Plus purchase price. I have 80hrs of flight training making “let’s get an airplane” one of the worst financial, and most frustrating, decisions I’ve ever made. Lol But I’m not giving up. When something like this tries to not go my way I double down and press on. Now…if they do deny me in the end , then this is mostly sunk costs that result in a “funny” story I get to tell my kids about how they need to take out student loans for college because daddy tried to be a pilot once. Lmao I admire your perseverance! I hope the FAA comes through for you. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 7 hours ago, Raymond J said: I imagine it would be better to get your pilot's license and then carry out 200 to 500 flight hours on this aircraft before considering changing the roll/yaw interconnection setting. Idle hands though. I’ve been spending down time getting the plane ready so it’s just time to go places when the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 1 hour ago, M20Doc said: I admire your perseverance! I hope the FAA comes through for you. Clarence Thanks, I worried that in the end they won’t allow passengers or something like that. This would be a terrible outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 It’s kind of strange that governments put all these medical restrictions on the relatively few non-commercial pilots — most of whom fly fairly infrequently — while they allow pretty much anyone to drive an automobile, every day, at highway speeds, and mere feet from each other. And then the FAA has the nerve to preach “risk management” to us. @Nukemzzz Press on and remember what Winston Churchill once said, Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~jcslee/poetry/churchill_nevergivein.html 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 There may be a concierge service available to walk your papers through the hallways of the FAA… By the second time I was going for my SI… the process was really easy… it just wasted 3/4 of a year to get it back… Making my ClassIII SI valid for about three months… and back to the hoops for another go every year… As far as my health goes… I typically run about 12 miles a week just for fun… which is better than my runs prior to my health issue… The treadmill Bruce Protocol was the hill I had to climb to get the ClassIII… I studied for that test…! Now, using the basic med… much easier to renew, without any down time… We have Doc John around here… he has the background in the medical process and has been helpful to MSers to figure their next steps… Good luck with your next steps… Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2022 Update: I got my medical and there are no limitations! Wow... just wow.... No more excuses now, its go time! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2022 Report Share Posted January 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Nukemzzz said: Update: I got my medical and there are no limitations! Wow... just wow.... No more excuses now, its go time! Nothing to hold you back now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 30, 2022 Report Share Posted January 30, 2022 Fantastic! Best news all day! -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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