rbp Posted January 6, 2022 Report Share Posted January 6, 2022 plane currently has a uAvionix tailbeacon, which is going to get a proper panel mounted txp. Am going to put in an LED tail light, and the shop asked me if it its solid or flashing. IIRC, its solid. can anyone confirm please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted January 6, 2022 Report Share Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) Put the Whelen Orion 500 LED light. It has both Nav and strobe in it. Honestly if you don't have LED Nav/strobes, now might be the time to do that. Since the entirety of the wiring is being replaced, take out the strobe power supplies, switch out the lights to the Orion 650e and the 500 and sync them all up. It's kind of a pain to do and worthwhile doing when they're routing the cables throughout the wing already. Then make sure you add all that stuff to the new weight and balance. It's probably another 10 to 15 pounds, but 10 to 15 pounds every time ends up making a massive difference. Especially since the Achilles heel of the Mooney tends to be useful load on a lot of the long bodies. Edited January 6, 2022 by Niko182 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB4 Posted January 6, 2022 Report Share Posted January 6, 2022 12 minutes ago, Niko182 said: Put the Whelen Orion 500 LED light Yup. Should flash about 50 times per min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted January 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Niko182 said: Honestly if you don't have LED Nav/strobes, it already has the pictured wingtip LEDs, which i believe are the 650e. all the supporting boxes for the legacy wingtip lights were removed. the rear position lights on the Bravo are on the back of the wingtips. That means that the tail light must be a strobe (which must be on to power the tail beacon for ADS-B). so the 500 only needs to operate as a strobe. plane already has LED taxi/landing lights, but those are just bulbs. I didn't do the tail at the same time because it needed the tailbeacon for ADS-B. I also didn't do the red belly beacon. the plane will get reweighed when its defueled. It Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted January 7, 2022 Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 If that's the case, do the Orion rear light, and make sure they hook up the strobe, the nav, and the sync. That way it'll blink with the main nav/strobes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted January 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 is the belly beacon the Orion 360? looks very different than what it already has Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted January 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Niko182 said: Orion rear light, and make sure they hook up the strobe, the nav, and the sync i'm not sure I understand. the rear position (nav) lights are on the wingtips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted January 7, 2022 Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 24 minutes ago, rbp said: i'm not sure I understand. the rear position (nav) lights are on the wingtips The orion has both a strobe and a nav integrated into it. It doesn't need to be a nav or strobe light since it can operate as both. I'd hook both up to it as an additional nav light. You would hook up a nav cable from the switch to hook up to the white nav portion of the light. Additionally to that you'd hook up the strobe portion from the strobe switch to power the additional strobe white light. And then a sync wire connected to the other 2 strobe lights to make them all flash together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted January 7, 2022 Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 hours ago, rbp said: the plane will get reweighed when its defueled. Your airplane will lose legal useful load if you do this rather than just continue with the weight and balance sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted January 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 9 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: Your airplane will lose legal useful load if you do this rather than just continue with the weight and balance sheet. so you're suggesting that I fly over MGTW, even if its "legal"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted January 7, 2022 Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, rbp said: so you're suggesting that I fly over MGTW, even if its "legal"? Of course not, just that every person I know that has spent the time and money to weigh their airplane hoping for more useful load has always been disappointed by those results. But do what makes you happy. There are two ways to calculate useful load. One way is to use the portable scales which aren't as accurate as the ones used at the factory. I've seen people weigh them four times with the same scales and not end up with the same figure. On my previous airplane I wasn't there when they weighed it new at the factory, but I'll accept that weight as being accurate, a good starting point. If all of the items removed and all of the items added were accounted for, that worked for me. I had a paper trail plus I had a buffer knowing that many extra pounds of wire were removed in addition to what was recorded. I just didn't want to go through all of that to have a figure that I didn't believe was as reliable as what I already had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted January 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 OK, so the real issue is that you don't think scales outside the factory are accurate. I will take that into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted January 7, 2022 Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 I’m sure there are a lot of good scales out there, but more importantly it’d the person doing it and if they follow the Maintenance Manual. For what it’s worth I’ve just seen very inconsistent results from people that do it occasionally. But my experience on this subject is very limited compared to others on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerodon Posted January 7, 2022 Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 5 hours ago, rbp said: so you're suggesting that I fly over MGTW, even if its "legal"? I cringe when I see how much passengers load into the overhead bins, knowing that they are only designed for 50lbs or so, and that the weight is not properly accumulated in the paperwork. I just shook my head once departing from Phoenix when the gate told pax that they could not take any more weight in the hold, so carry on only for the rest of the pax. I'm just updating a W&B for a C172, they came out of the factory with a calculated weight. Yeah, if you have a properly prepared W&B, its legal, and keep going. A 50lb error is not going to make much difference. Aerodon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerodon Posted January 7, 2022 Report Share Posted January 7, 2022 I've just done this, mainly because of scope creep. Whelen Nav / Strobe combination. I changed my wingtips to the Aveo's, partly because they look cool and because it is getting difficult to replace the forward facing halogen recognition lights and aft facing halogen Nav lights. In fact I bought a set of LED replacements for the AFT lights, and they didn't fit, somewhere along the way there is a conversion kit to accept a different bulb. The new tips don't have the aft Nav light, so I had to install a combined Nav / Strobe unit like the older M20K's. The Whelen unit is nice. You get to remove the old strobe and the power supply 'brick'. You can use the wiring that was for the 'brick' for the strobe portion, but you have to pull a new wire all the way to the front for the Nav Light. All worth it in my opinion. Aerodon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted January 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 @aerodon thanks, that makes perfect sense. i don't know about the lighting on a K, but the M has position lights on the rear of the wingtips. there are LED bulbs for those now. supposedly replacements for the high-power recogs are coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 rbp, Did you get a clear answer on your tail’s light? The Long Bodies all have the same three rear facing white solid lights… as they came from the factory… many have been upgraded to LED… The light at the tail is both strobe and solid white… (there is even a thread around here for that…) We have the Whelen guy around here if you want more details regarding what light they offer for that… to let them know you are interested in the LED recog lights… let @OSUAV8TER know your interest… Where the lights and functions need to be is an FAA rule… that has changed a few times over the years… all based on the year your plane was built…. The good news… the Uavionics device has some resale value, and the power supply for the strobe has some weight and value too… Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerodon Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 4 hours ago, carusoam said: The Long Bodies all have the same three rear facing white solid lights… as they came from the factory… many have been upgraded to LED… The light at the tail is both strobe and solid white… (there is even a thread around here for that…) I'm not sure if you are spreading misinformation here. For sure My M20K has two rear facing white lights on the wingtips and one rear facing white strobe on the rudder (no nav light or wiring for it on the rudder). The earlier K's had a strobe / nav combination on the rudder and no wingtip white nav lights. I'm reasonably sure that if there are aft facing white nav lights, then there is not an aft facing rudder nav light and vice versa, even on later models. Aerodon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, Aerodon said: I'm not sure if you are spreading misinformation here. For sure My M20K has two rear facing white lights on the wingtips and one rear facing white strobe on the rudder (no nav light or wiring for it on the rudder). The earlier K's had a strobe / nav combination on the rudder and no wingtip white nav lights. I'm reasonably sure that if there are aft facing white nav lights, then there is not an aft facing rudder nav light and vice versa, even on later models. Aerodon Don, I am probably initiating the mis-information on this one… I was hoping to hear back from our Whelen guy to see how the world is handling this… I was under the belief that the tail still had a white bulb… for traffic approaching from the side. I used to share the graphic description Whelen used as advertisement… but, haven’t seen it in a while… Thanks, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 On 1/6/2022 at 8:20 PM, rbp said: i'm not sure I understand. the rear position (nav) lights are on the wingtips 12 hours ago, rbp said: i don't know about the lighting on a K, but the M has position lights on the rear of the wingtips. there are LED bulbs for those now. supposedly replacements for the high-power recogs are coming After having installed a ton of the newer Whelen/WAT lights on several J's, "M", and Ovations, let me see if I can summarize for you...and hoping it makes sense. Forgive me if I'm being redundant or insulting your intelligence. Pic. #1 - The lighting requirements for your "M" are in the chart (excerpted from WAT's website). I only included wingtip and tail - not landing, taxi, or trailing edge wingtip. Pic. #2 - The functionality of the OR500 rear ACL/NAV light combo (replaces the A625 single white strobe) is as follows. There are 4 wires coming off this light...NAV Power, ACL Power, Sync, and Ground The NAV power wire connects to your NAV light switch and illuminates (solid) the 4 LED elements circled in blue. The ACL power wire connects to your Strobe switch and illuminates (flashing) the 18 LED elements circled in red. The wingtip light assemblies are wired identically to the OR500 tail combo. As @Niko182 pointed out, you can wire the three light heads together using the sync (yellow) wire to allow the ACL portions of all three to flash together/simultaneously, but connecting this wire isn't required...personal preference. Pic. #3 - Size comparison (from Whelen/WAT) between the existing strobe/nav combo and the new forward wingtip LED light heads. Many folks "shave" down the outermost corner of the LED light head, believing the light will chafe on the lens, but it will not. Pic. #4 - The "old" model 90033 lower beacon light has been replaced by..... Pic. #5 - .....the model 90852. Just ordered one for myself, and they aren't cheap, however, it is a direct LED replacement for 90033. Pic. #6 - Lastly, Aero-Lites makes a rearward-facing/trailing-edge LED replacement for the incandescent A508 white position light. Although it isn't approved, you're ok to install it, as it isn't part of your airplane's approved anti-collision light system. Certainly hope this helps. Let me know if questions. As some folks indicated, @OSUAV8TER as a WAT/Whelen dealer can help with your purchase, should you decide to go all-LED. Trust me, it's totally worth the money and then some. Not only is the safety aspect incredible, but the look of the airplane when fully-lit is amazing. Good luck, Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUAV8TER Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 @rbp you definitely need the Orion 500 to replace that uAvionix tail beacon. I have them for $419.99 plus shipping (orders over $500 ship free). For that tear drop belly beacon you need the 908525D and that is a little pricey at $1,599.99. I usually stock that but I don't sell too many of them so I have one in stock at a time with an 8 week lead time. I just sold one 2 weeks ago so a 6-7 week lead time. As far as I know, I'm the only dealer I've ever seen stock this light. You can PM or email me at gallagheraviationllc@gmail.com. I am a Whelen Aerospace Technologies (WAT) authorized dealer and my website is https://www.gallagheraviationllc.com/whelen-aircraft-lighting.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted January 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 Thanks everyone I think I know what needs to be done now. @OSUAV8TER Thanks for the offer. The airplane is in the avionics shop right now and they are going to take care of the rest of the LED lights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amillet Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 @OSUAV8TER My 97 J has this red beacon light on the belly. All the LED lights I have found look like the size and shape of a soup can. Are there any LEDs that are more streamlined to replace this light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerodon Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 Aveo engineering make these for experimental aircraft: https://www.aveoengineering.com/supernova-fs-daylite/ What are the legalities of installing a non-TSO'd light when it is not required lighting on an aircraft. Don 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted January 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 15 hours ago, StevenL757 said: Pic. #6 - Lastly, Aero-Lites makes a rearward-facing/trailing-edge LED replacement for the incandescent A508 white position light. Although it isn't approved, you're ok to install it, as it isn't part of your airplane's approved anti-collision light system. this is great. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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