IFR training questions and advice.

[carusoam]

2 hours ago, Mcstealth said:

11.  The blue dot is geo reference on the ground?

12. I have access to a 180 Piper and a 172 that both have 430W

16. CFII is the goal

Thanks for the response David!

The Geo reference IS the blue dot…

The blue dot costs a bit extra…

It helps you know exactly where you are on the approach plate….  While you are close to the ground, with less room for simple errors…
 

Probably more important when you are single pilot, after training… used as an error checking mechanism…

 

Some panel set-ups have better situational awareness than others…

Some people have better SA than others…. 

 

+1 For learning as much about the weather as you can…. see Dr. Scott’s post above…. He is the WeatherSpork guy… and the king of the Skew T charts…

As an IR pilot…. Avoiding ice and thunderstorms is now a real important next step….  IMC has a way of letting you not see it coming…

 

Prepare for cognitive overload!

-a-

[Mcstealth]

Thank you, all. Appreciate it. 

On a side note, my Brother-in-law says we flew into rain today, which, I guess I knew it was raining, but not to the extent he said it was. I had my foggels on and he said at one point he could not see the airport. So yay for me. On a second side note, my B-I-L seems to expect me to know more about what to do than what I actually know. Grrrrrr

[mike_elliott]

David, might I suggest you get the written test completed prior to really jumping in with the flight training? It will help you understand the nomenclature, the processes, the systems, ATC, weather much better. While your droning along at mach .19, it is difficult to grasp a concept while having to learn some prerequisite fundamentals and definitions.

 

[Marc_B]

2 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

David, might I suggest you get the written test completed prior to really jumping in with the flight training?

^^^ this!  I did all the ground school and written exam before getting into my flights (focused on PIC XC with flight following before the written).  At first I thought it would make more sense to "fly and learn as I go," but in retrospect the ground training and written exam are the minimum information you need to build a foundation of instrument flight.  Flights are the "do" and learn the "doing", not to learn about something to begin with.  I also found YouTube BoldMethod and ERAU videos helpful to pull things together.  I'd watch these, fly with CFII to perform them, and then rewatch...helps to pick up the nuance.

And found this video helpful for discussing wrap up closer to check ride.  And if you don't have a FAR/AIM 2022 that's tabbed and annotated...get one!

 

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

Also suggest you get training in an AATD aka “simulator” as 

• you can log up to 20 hours dual towards the rating in a sim
• It is a great learning environment  compared to the cockpit. 
• it’s cheaper 
• You can simulate events and conditions I hesitate to do in actual flight

I try to get my instrument students into a decent AATD for 10+ hours.  Several local schools have decent sims and they are nearly always available.  (Perhaps because the younger CFI time-builders can’t log any flight time teaching in the sim so they don’t care to use it).

 

[toto]

10 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Also suggest you get training in an AATD aka “simulator” as 

• you can log up to 20 hours dual towards the rating in a sim
• It is a great learning environment  compared to the cockpit. 
• it’s cheaper 
• You can simulate events and conditions I hesitate to do in actual flight

I try to get my instrument students into a decent AATD for 10+ hours.  Several local schools have decent sims and they are nearly always available.  (Perhaps because the younger CFI time-builders can’t log any flight time teaching in the sim so they don’t care to use it).

 

Even a BATD is good for 10 hours towards the rating. I can rent a Red Bird TD2 from a local flight school for $25/hour.

[Mcstealth]

7 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

David, might I suggest you get the written test completed prior to really jumping in with the flight training? It will help you understand the nomenclature, the processes, the systems, ATC, weather much better. While your droning along at mach .19, it is difficult to grasp a concept while having to learn some prerequisite fundamentals and definitions.

 

I am on it. Learned my lesson, quickly. 

Still have your card in my wallet for the day I need you.

[toto]

1 hour ago, philip_g said:

if you can fly those damn redbird FMX sims you can fly anything

They really aren’t too bad, especially if the one you’re flying matches your panel. I think they use X-Plane. 

[midlifeflyer]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:41 PM, Skates97 said:

I'm not sure how Avare plays with data on an SD card

Avare is a secondary backup for me on my Samsung S10 phone. It will not access the external SD card. There is supposedly a way to force it but I've followed the instructions to no avail.

 

 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

Avare is a secondary backup for me on my Samsung S10 phone. It will not access the external SD card. There is supposedly a way to force it but I've followed the instructions to no avail.

 

 

Weird.   Mine are all runnning avare from SD flash.   In my case I think I did it in the application manager, where you have the option of moving it to external storage.

[1964-M20E]

On 12/30/2021 at 7:23 PM, Mcstealth said:

I have started working toward an instrument rating. What would be your plan on achieving the goal?

I have a fairly good deal money wise with my Brother-in-law as a newly minted CFII so I will be able to fly quite regularly for the month of January weather permitting at a good rate. 

Do I need the most expensive version of Foreflight like he wishes me to buy? Sheppard Air as a study sight. Is that okay? Is there a CB way to satisfy the technology side of things? 

Thanks in advance. 

David

 

1. you have set your goal, and have the financials worked out
2. now set a time frame 5 to 6 months is sufficient to get your IR
3. use all paper charts and procedures while getting your IR, learn situational awareness and know where you are without the electronics
4. use panel GPS primarily for GPS approaches
5. do not use AP during your IR training
6. after your get your IR rating work with your BIL and go as deep into the electronics age as you wish but you will know what is going on and if most of the electronics die you will have done manually in the past and can call on that experience in a pinch

JMHO

[midlifeflyer]

11 hours ago, EricJ said:

Weird.   Mine are all runnning avare from SD flash.   In my case I think I did it in the application manager, where you have the option of moving it to external storage.

Mine will only accept the "emulated" SD card which is basically the internal drive.

[EricJ]

59 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Mine will only accept the "emulated" SD card which is basically the internal drive.

I wonder if it is tablet dependent.   I have two Samsung Tab Es and one Tab A.

[toto]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

Mine will only accept the "emulated" SD card which is basically the internal drive.

It’s been a little while since I did this, but I vaguely recall that changing to external storage requires you to “clear data” in app settings and then switch your storage location in Avare before downloading charts. There’s some sort of initialization that happens when you first configure the app, and you can’t properly change your storage selection after the first download. 

[Mcstealth]

2 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

1.  
2. use all paper charts and procedures while getting your IR, learn situational awareness and know where you are without the electronics.

I was wondering about this and @Hank has also mentioned it. 

As of right now, we are void of all paper. I was actually not prepared for that. I assumed we would start with paper. 

[Mooney Dog]

2 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

do not use AP during your IR training

I very much disagree with this. If you plane has an AP, learn how to use it because you WILL be test on it on a checkride. You need to be able to answer what you can and cant use your AP for in your airplane. 

 

2 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

• now set a time frame 5 to 6 months is sufficient to get your IR
• use all paper charts and procedures while getting your IR, learn situational awareness and know where you are without the electronics

 

5 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

I was wondering about this and @Hank has also mentioned it. 

As of right now, we are void of all paper. I was actually not prepared for that. I assumed we would start with paper. 

5 - 6 months should be way more than enough time to get an IFR. Casually ive gotten people an IR ticket in 3 months of training and flying once or twice a week. 

Paper is good for practice, but its the modern age, use an EFB. Its just better. Just learn how to use them without the geo referencing. 

[midlifeflyer]

On 1/2/2022 at 11:15 AM, Mcstealth said:

I was wondering about this and @Hank has also mentioned it. 

As of right now, we are void of all paper. I was actually not prepared for that. I assumed we would start with paper. 

I sometimes think that there's a slight advantage to paper enroute charts early on because it's just more conducive to laying out and  pointing out things and talking about them at the table during a ground session . But that's marginal. I think if one is already using an EFB as a VFR pilot, there's no reason not to use it from the beginning as an instrument student.  If this is the first foray into the world of EFBs, I think it can be delayed a bit since there is so much avionics use to learn but if its going to be used in the real world it needs to be used in training.

Edited January 4, 2022 by midlifeflyer

[jaylw314]

18 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Avare is a secondary backup for me on my Samsung S10 phone. It will not access the external SD card. There is supposedly a way to force it but I've followed the instructions to no avail.

 

 

IIRC you could reformat your SD card to use combined storage in some Android versions.  I can't remember what they actually called it, and not all devices/versions were able to, but if your device does, you can easily use the SD card as additional internal memory for Avare

Edit: oops, never mind, already mentioned

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by jaylw314

[jaylw314]

5 hours ago, Mooney Dog said:

I very much disagree with this. If you plane has an AP, learn how to use it because you WILL be test on it on a checkride. You need to be able to answer what you can and cant use your AP for in your airplane. 

My CFII and I spent one practice flight specifically going over the KFC150 operation and a bunch of use cases

[1964-M20E]

5 hours ago, Mooney Dog said:

I very much disagree with this. If you plane has an AP, learn how to use it because you WILL be test on it on a checkride. You need to be able to answer what you can and cant use your AP for in your airplane. 

 

 

5 - 6 months should be way more than enough time to get an IFR. Casually ive gotten people an IR ticket in 3 months of training and flying once or twice a week. 

Paper is good for practice, but its the modern age, use an EFB. Its just better. Just learn how to use them without the geo referencing. 

The point about the AP is learn to fly the pane on the instruments, relaying on the AP does you no good when the AP craps out. I like have the AP and use it all the time but when I'm doing currency flights I hand fly the plane.

I agree EFB is better just make sure you can do it with paper.  Know how to add but use a calculator to make it easier when adding many numbers.

[Skates97]

6 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

I sometimes think that there's a slight advantage to paper enroute charts early on because it's just more conducive to laying out because it's easier to point out things and talk about them at the table during a grounds session . But that's marginal. I think if one is already using an EFB as a VFR pilot, there's no reason not to use it from the beginning as an instrument student.  If this is the first foray into the world of EFBs, I think it can be delayed a bit since there is so much avionics use to learn but if its going to be used in the real world it needs to be used in training.

I agree, if you've been using an EFB keep using it. 

We didn't use any paper in my training and the DPE didn't pull out any paper. He had Foreflight going on his iPad and I had iFly GPS on my Samsung tablet when we did the oral. One advantage of paper is the legend on the side, but you can pull that up in the EFB as well as long as you know where to find it. If you are going to use an EFB know it inside and out. 

If you are relying on an EFB, have a backup. I have two tablets plus my phone with the EFB on it. The DPE asked what I would do if something went wrong with tablet. I pulled the second tablet out of my flight bag and said "use this." We moved on to the next question. 

[donkaye]

On 1/1/2022 at 9:23 AM, Marc_B said:

^^^ this!  I did all the ground school and written exam before getting into my flights (focused on PIC XC with flight following before the written).  At first I thought it would make more sense to "fly and learn as I go," but in retrospect the ground training and written exam are the minimum information you need to build a foundation of instrument flight.  Flights are the "do" and learn the "doing", not to learn about something to begin with.  I also found YouTube BoldMethod and ERAU videos helpful to pull things together.  I'd watch these, fly with CFII to perform them, and then rewatch...helps to pick up the nuance.

And found this video helpful for discussing wrap up closer to check ride.  And if you don't have a FAR/AIM 2022 that's tabbed and annotated...get one!

 

 

Although 8 years old, the best actual Instrument Flight Test Prep I have viewed, and worth every bit of the nearly 2 hours it took to view.

[carusoam]

PP thoughts on paper vs. glass….

A paper chart is similar to a paper manual…

You know exactly how much info it has in it…. You Want to know it all…

 

Where EFBs could be endless, and if you don’t look at every detail… you may miss something in the training…. What’s this fine line, what is this tiny box of details… how do I find what center’s frequency is…

 

As far as APs and training go… similar to using paper charts…

You want to use the AP for all of its abilities… when to push which button…

You really want to know how to handle the plane… hand flying takes care of that…

 

The point of training in your own plane covers these details backwards and forwards…

Learn as many approach types as you can… execute with all the equipment in your plane… leave nothing behind…

 

If you use your AP to fly the plane for long X-Cs…. That would not be getting your money’s worth…

If you prefer to use the AP… that’s nice too.  I prefer my CFII to fly me around… there are going to be tough days ahead… and my CFII isn’t going to be there…

Do the tough and boring manual stuff so you can prove to yourself… that is in fact boring… not uncomfortable…

If it is uncomfortable… fly manually more…. It becomes comfortable when you are good at it… 
 

When flying by hand… for hours.   You get a real feeling for how cognitively tiring rough weather can be…

Constant scan, constantly drifting, constantly adjusting… constantly tiring….

when the air gets bumpy… two things often stop working very well…. The AP and the TC… expect them to disappoint… unless they are in near new condition… then expect them to disappoint a little less…. 

 

PP thoughts only, not a CFII…

Best regards,

-a-

[Mcstealth]

Is there a time factor in the hours you have flown before you take the IFR check ride? Do any under-the-hood or XC hours Expire?? (For lack of a better term?)

[carusoam]

From decade old experience….

You want to know what you will be tested on… (knowing who is giving the test, find out his preferred items to test on, how and where…. Past experience)

Know that from a practical test point of view… all the things you are going to need to demonstrate….

Practice a bunch of each the day before….

Rest up, and demonstrate your awesome skills on test day…

 

One thing that does expire… the written test has a use before date on it somewhere…. It may be fresh for a couple of years, not a decade….

 

From a human skills point of view… hours in our log books don’t expire… but recency is very important for many things… and there is guidance for those…

Like night flight… rules for regaining recency before taking a passenger…

IFR flight has experience and recency rules to allow you to fly in the system… and what is required to regain the required recency if you let it lapse…. How many approaches before a time deadline goes by….

 

Now… wait for a CFII to give a real answer….  

 

PP thoughts only,

-a-