Jump to content

A Database question...


PJClark

Recommended Posts

Hi gang,

OK I've been wondering this for over 2 years and finally the question is "ripe":

what do you do about databases when they changeover in the middle of a week-long trip? Can G3X/GTN750 data cards hold two databases, the one that's expiring and the new one?

OR

-do you make duplicate cards before you leave home, one with the new, one with the expiring?  the age old question I imagine: is a non-garmin card "legal" in a GTN750 for IFR?

-or do you just haul a laptop and the card readers with you on the trip and update before the leg that needs the new databases?

(flying to St Louis on business on Monday 29 Nov and back home on Fri 3 Dec.  Databases expire on 2 Dec...)

???
PJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the GTN, the DB in use is internal to the device. So you can download the upcoming update to the card before expiration and install it to the device on the day it expires. Same with GI275s.  (Don’t know if this applies to the G3X.)

 I do the update this way on occasion, but usually I just haul my laptop and use it to update everything. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Garmin G3X website says you can put in the future updated card and choose not to do the update until the day it changes over. I know my GNX375 works that way too. The card is just to change the data in the database. Once changed the database doesn’t change until you insert a newer card and do the update process again. Update an SD card before you leave Monday and put it into the G3- and GTN BUT DONT do the database update until Thursday December 1 (I believe that is changeover day for the DB’s).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PJ,

I think you may be thinking the data card is being used differently than what it actually is…?
 

You get a couple of weeks to get the new data… before it is needed.

The data card holds that data….

The GPS box is not reading from the card, except when uploading it once for use…

Put new data on the card, use it when needed…

then you get 28 more days, before the new data becomes old…

 

To check this theory… remove the data card, and watch the GPS work as normal, without the data card in it…

 

I’m pretty sure the data cards are not actively used… this would add a failure mode to an otherwise reliable system…

If that doesn’t work… get extra data card…  lots of recommendations for those around here…

PP guesses at best… :)

Best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, I confess to being completely in the dark about how the card is used in the box(es).  I had assumed that on the day that the "changeover" happens (this next one on 2 Dec), the old data is "old" and the new data is the only data that is current/suitable for IFR use?

Not so?  you get 28 more days??

I also thought there was a difference between SD-card devices (G3X, GTN...) and a GNS. The former require me to touch a key to actually Update from the cards--the GNS doesn't require that, it just fires up with the cards inserted. I'd assumed the GNS was using the database ON the card, not loading it into internal memory.

Also not so??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PJ,

Great questions…

It is one part FAA driven…

And another part hardware driven…

 

The FAA delivers the data in 28 day cycles…

The new data has a start and and end date associated with it… for its use.

The data providers have enough time to make the data available to the end users for about two weeks of leeway…

 

I doubt…

1) any GPS boxes load data before it’s time… without user approval…

2) older GPS boxes don’t have the computer strength to make automated decisions, without user approval.


The most modern database handling I see….  Is the iPad based nav systems… (WingX).

The system can hold about three DBs…

After downloading a new one… you get questions about what one you desire to have active…

 

Be sure you have the proper database active…

 

There is a history of some databases not loading properly…

so… don’t expect automatic DB handling without user approval to become the norm…. :)
 

Wait for somebody with your GPS to come by…

Its quite possible your device is set up to read whatever is on the card and operate from it…

Around here… cards get old and stop functioning… after the decades….

Best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

I doubt…

1) any GPS boxes load data before it’s time… without user approval…

My IFD will let you load data early.   On the initial startup screen where it shows database status it just shows them as being out-of-date until the active date, then it shows them as current.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The GNS devices don't have internal memory so they need a current database installed on the card. The only option if you want to preprogram a database update is to buy a second card and download to that and then swap cards.

The GTN loads the database from the SD card into internal memory after which you can remove the card. If you download a newer database to the SD card before it is current and place the card in the GTN, the GTN will check on boot up and allow you to load the update into internal memory when the date range is valid. The GTN actually has a standby internal memory for downloading using database concierge and I believe this memory can also store a database from a SD card that is not yet valid. I haven't tried that -- maybe someone else has and can tell us how it works.

Garmin does not make all the databases available on the same date -- generally charts are not available more than a day or two before the expiration date. NavData about a week.

Skip

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/28/2021 at 9:58 AM, PJClark said:

Thx all. I also have a GNS430W...I figure there's no option with that beyond the laptop and reader? 

Have you looked at the Wombat?
I have not tried it but it looks like an easier solution than dragging the laptop along.

https://bad-elf.com/pages/wombat-piston

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried this yesterday since we are on the verge of a new update and the GTN and G3X are new to me. The current cycle is 2111 and 2112 becomes active 12/2/21. I downloaded 2112 data to an SD card and put it in the GTN and on power up it recognized the data on the card as STANDBY Source: Card. I found no way to download it from the card to the internal standby memory so I assume that memory is only used for downloading from Database Concierge.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/30/2021 at 2:05 PM, PT20J said:

I tried this yesterday since we are on the verge of a new update and the GTN and G3X are new to me. The current cycle is 2111 and 2112 becomes active 12/2/21. I downloaded 2112 data to an SD card and put it in the GTN and on power up it recognized the data on the card as STANDBY Source: Card. I found no way to download it from the card to the internal standby memory so I assume that memory is only used for downloading from Database Concierge.

 

Doesn’t it download the SD card data to the unit when you do a database update? Until then it is on the card only and not used until you do an update of the Navdata.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, AIREMATT said:

Doesn’t it download the SD card data to the unit when you do a database update? Until then it is on the card only and not used until you do an update of the Navdata.

Yes. My question was: is it possible to download the next cycle data from the SD card into the internal standby memory so that the card would not need to remain in the unit for the automatic update to occur. The Garmin documentation is not clear on this. But, I couldn’t find a way to cause the data to be downloaded from the card into standby memory so I concluded that the standby memory is only utilized  when database concierge is used to download wirelessly from Garmin Pilot. Clearly the internal standby memory is required in that case because the data has to be stored somewhere in the unit until it becomes valid and there is no SD card since the Flight Stream card is in the SD slot.

Skip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, kortopates said:

But the Flight Stream card is also an SD card that you can format and write files to directly (without using WiFi). It contains the database files just like a SD card would.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn’t know that. But the documentation specifically differentiates between updates residing on an SD Card and in a “Internal Standby Queue”. There is just no description of when and how the queue is used. 

Skip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn’t know that. But the documentation specifically differentiates between updates residing on an SD Card and in a “Internal Standby Queue”. There is just no description of when and how the queue is used. 
Skip
Agreed, and since I have never operated the GTN without the  FS-510 card I don't know the answer either - whether its storing the standby database on the card or internally. But since it refers to the card on the database page it makes me think its using the card but never tried to verify. 
But that seems counter to what you found in the documentation, so I am curious.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.