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m20c new panel layout options


Jcmtl
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Which would you guys choose, or do you have better suggestions? 

Basically, is it better to have the aspen above the yoke or off to the side to squeeze more gauges on the left panel?

Im ripping out stock avionics and scrapping the vacuum system and putting in the aspen, the gnc 355 and a new audio panel with space for the ipad on the right.

 

PANEL.JPG

panel 2.JPG

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Second layout, with following changes:

  • TACH and Fuel/Manifold pressure - move to copilot panel, as far left as they can go against the radio stack
  • CDI - move to pilot panel to the right of altimeter
  • digital engine gauge - pilot panel, bottom right corner
  • analog EGT - pilot panel, top right corner

This will leave you with enough real estate to mount an iPad on the copilot panel for ForeFlight (or whatever)

You can see my ipad mount here clears the round holes where my Tach/man/fuel instruments were before going to EDM900 earlier this year:

image.thumb.png.03dd7fb9b0e8b60581a99a4d65bc3c48.png

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I think the Aspen offset a little to the left of the yoke will be fine.  It might look a little odd, but in practice, no problem.

Make sure you provide enough clearance between the Aspen flush-mount vertical rails behind the panel and the yoke shaft ball.  It’s close on mine, and it looks like your Aspen cutout is a little more left of center (in layout #2) and could present a problem.    

image.thumb.png.cc5a626d00f821448b8a8d0fd2037b4b.png

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I maybe stating the  obvious  here, If you noticed in the later model Mooney's the Radio  stack aligns  prop/mixture controls  the earlier models mid 60's the radio stack aligns with throttle making the number 3.125" holes across in width dimension limited.

So I am not sure if you can get 2 rows of 4  a 3.125" diameter instrument holes across on the pilot's side. That been said I do recall  seeing one or two panels where they figured out a way. When I had tried previously tried to do so, I couldn't do it with shifting  the radio stack. I had panel outfit look at it trying to make 4 3.125" across and they couldn't make it fit either. I have two Garmin G5's  perhaps the Aspen is narrower width. If I recall correctly I think I was a 1" short in the width dimension.

 

James '67C

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4 hours ago, Jcmtl said:

Which would you guys choose, or do you have better suggestions? 

Basically, is it better to have the aspen above the yoke or off to the side to squeeze more gauges on the left panel?

Im ripping out stock avionics and scrapping the vacuum system and putting in the aspen, the gnc 355 and a new audio panel with space for the ipad on the right.

 

 

 

i would go with the first one personally. Do you already have the aspen? if not id look into dual g5s. I had thought you couldnt remove the vacuum system with a single aspen unit. 

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4 hours ago, ShuRugal said:

Second layout, with following changes:

  • TACH and Fuel/Manifold pressure - move to copilot panel, as far left as they can go against the radio stack
  • CDI - move to pilot panel to the right of altimeter
  • digital engine gauge - pilot panel, bottom right corner
  • analog EGT - pilot panel, top right corner

This will leave you with enough real estate to mount an iPad on the copilot panel for ForeFlight (or whatever)

You can see my ipad mount here clears the round holes where my Tach/man/fuel instruments were before going to EDM900 earlier this year:

image.thumb.png.03dd7fb9b0e8b60581a99a4d65bc3c48.png

Thats the 930 right? I should bite the bullet and buy that.... 

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Why put instruments in rows that don't match the angle of the panel and waste space? You're worried about fitting merely eight instruments to the left of the radios in your C? My Mooney panel matches this in the Owners Manual, and I count twelve instruments plus five breaker switches, the electric gear selector and lights, a column of indicator lights and a checklist to the left of the radios.

When I look at your two drafts above, there's just so much wasted space where the panel arches above the top row of your boxes, and a fair amount of space below them, too. This is what most of it looks li,like,, so we need to add I. The OAT readout to the list above. Only eight? YGBSM!! And yes, it's a C, too.

20150522_170516.thumb.jpg.9d1b6f0c90be00dc5d659d60d6f776ee.jpg

Screenshot_20181126-181010.thumb.jpg.56b4a7015002ef87de926d41628e9b53.jpg

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Find pics of other Mooneys with Aspens in them…

Some get a second screen over time…

Other have all three…

Figure out what you need for back up instruments for each set-up…

 

The most important part…. 
 

Does the Aspen fit directly above the yoke?

It is a 3D problem… with motion.

 

Have you done an instrument panel layout before, or is this your first one?

There is so much knowledge already tested around here…

PP thoughts only, not an avionics guru…

Best regards,

-a-

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21 minutes ago, Mooney Dog said:

i would go with the first one personally. Do you already have the aspen? if not id look into dual g5s. I had thought you couldnt remove the vacuum system with a single aspen unit. 

https://aspenavionics.com/news/raising-the-glass-the-new-aspen-e5-dual-electronic-flight-instrument
 

as per their website, you can.  The shop where i’m getting this done had also told me i could.  Dual g5s are also an option. 

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23 minutes ago, Hank said:

Why put instruments in rows that don't match the angle of the panel and waste space? You're worried about fitting merely eight instruments to the left of the radios in your C? My Mooney panel matches this in the Owners Manual, and I count twelve instruments plus five breaker switches, the electric gear selector and lights, a column of indicator lights and a checklist to the left of the radios.

When I look at your two drafts above, there's just so much wasted space where the panel arches above the top row of your boxes, and a fair amount of space below them, too. This is what most of it looks li,like,, so we need to add I. The OAT readout to the list above. Only eight? YGBSM!! And yes, it's a C, too.

20150522_170516.thumb.jpg.9d1b6f0c90be00dc5d659d60d6f776ee.jpg

Screenshot_20181126-181010.thumb.jpg.56b4a7015002ef87de926d41628e9b53.jpg

Yours is the late c panel, the layout is different and your radio stack is off to the right.  Also, i’m not going to add instruments i dont already have and don’t really need. 

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21 minutes ago, Jcmtl said:

https://aspenavionics.com/news/raising-the-glass-the-new-aspen-e5-dual-electronic-flight-instrument
 

as per their website, you can.  The shop where i’m getting this done had also told me i could.  Dual g5s are also an option. 

HUH! TIL! Thank you for the information. 

 

Also for reference in my E

image.png.94e5f3835e1dc889c002e2db024446c2.png

 

 

So in looking around some. Dual G5s with the LPM is 5,520. Going up to the 275s bring it to 7,350. A single Aspen is 4,495. I personally think the G5 would be a better path if you're planning on getting a gfc500 AP at some point in the future and for having 2 ahrs units. 

Edited by Mooney Dog
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4 hours ago, jamesm said:

So I am not sure if you can get 2 rows of 4  a 3.125" diameter instrument holes across on the pilot's side. That been said I do recall  seeing one or two panels where they figured out a way.

I think LASAR had a template some years ago with a 9 hole layout.  I had this pic of a ‘62 C in my archives.  I’m not sure if an instrument will fit where the clock is in the lower left, but the panel has 9 holes.  

Careful analysis needs to be done to determine if this layout will work for you, and more importantly, your A&P/IA.

image.thumb.png.ec3703d0bd7eeb978858869e72ccccc6.png

 

 

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I do have a few suggestions. In the 30+ years I've owned my '65 C my panel has gone through several upgrades, including two major ones. I've never owned an Aspen unit but a good friend has one in his C172, so these suggestions are based on our experience:

  • If you're going to install an Aspen unit, don't install it vertically right over the yoke. Doing so makes it difficult or impossible to reach around the yoke and access the five controls at the very bottom while you're trying to fly the airplane.
  • Installing it vertically to the left of the yoke would be even worse because the controls are even less accessible.
  • Try to group the navigational instruments -- especially the ones used for approaches -- together. Doing so makes scanning easier and makes for improved situational awareness. One of your layouts has the RPM/MP gauge on the left and the VOR/GS indicator on the right. 
  • If you're going with an Aspen, installing it to the right of the yoke next to the radio/gps stack would address the above issues. It would also be more aesthetically pleasing since it groups rectangular displays separately from round displays and IMHO just looks nicer.  To me a vertically-mounted Aspen display sandwiched between round instruments to the right and left has always been a bit jarring. An Aspen can be installed horizontally.
  • Rather than an iPad off to the right, consider an iPad mini mounted right on the yoke. The mini has a brightest display of all the iPads and can be mounted vertically or horizontally such that you can still see the full panel.  (Plates on a horizontal display are no problem because they can be positioned and zoomed).
  • If you're going to use ForeFlight or Garmin Navigator with your iPad, definitely get a FlightStream 210 to synch your iPad with the GNC355. The ability to do that, combined with the plates right in front of you on the yoke rather than the panel, the ability to change waypoints instantly from either the iPad or the GPS, etc., is simply fantastic.

For what it's worth, here are the compromises I ended up making on my current panel, which I've had for a couple of years now.  The G5 serving as PFD is front & center. The G5 serving as HSI is right next to the GPS-400W to minimize the distance between them when flying approaches. That way they almost function as a single instrument.  I have two KX-155's and VOR/GS displays to avoid single point-of-failure.  (Which is why I have a 400W instead of a 430W)  The empty space is wishful thinking at the moment; it's for a GFC-500 if I can ever afford it!

1965 M20C panel.jpg

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