Best way to repair this?

[TravelVeteran]

broken brake line flare tip.  my mechanic wants to take out the entire line and ship it off to lasar for overhaul.  is there no way to cut the line and add a coupling & a new flare?

 

[N201MKTurbo]

You can cut the end off and re-flare it. You will lose about 1/2 inch by the time you are done. Will it work if it is shorter? 

Why doesn't your mechanic just make a new line? There is about $10 worth of parts to make a new one. Buy extra tubing, because you will screw up the first one.

This sort of thing is exactly what the FAA was thinking about when they made the regulation about owner produced parts.

[N201MKTurbo]

FWIW,

The division of Alcoa that makes this tubing is on Allison Street in south Chandler AZ. When I order it from Spruce it is shipped from their warehouse in Illinois. When it gets here it is video jet marked "Made in Chandler AZ. It has to travel over 1000 miles to make it 4 miles. 

[markgrue]

AC43.13 spells out the procedure to make lines quite clearly.   This is basic mechanic skills. 

 

Mark

[TravelVeteran]

31 minutes ago, markgrue said:

AC43.13 spells out the procedure to make lines quite clearly.   This is basic mechanic skills. 

https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_43.13-1b_w-chg1.pdf

which page is it on? im looking but cant seem to find it.

31 minutes ago, markgrue said:

Mark

 

[TravelVeteran]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

oa that makes this tubing is on Allison Street in south Chandler AZ. When I order it from Spruce it is shipped from their warehouse in Illinois. When it gets here it is video jet marked "Made in Chandler AZ. It has to travel over 100

i think i found it, 9-18:

"9-30. HYDRAULIC LINES AND FITTINGS. Carefully inspect all lines and fittings at regular intervals to ensure airworthiness. Investigate any evidence of fluid loss or leaks. Check metal lines for leaks, loose anchorage, scratches, kinks, or other damage. Inspect fittings and connections for leakage, looseness, cracks, burrs, or other damage. Replace or repair defective elements. Make sure the lines and hoses do not chafe against one another and are correctly secured and clamped. a. Replacement of Metal Lines. When inspection shows a line to be damaged or defective, replace the entire line or, if the damaged section is localized, a repair section may be inserted. In replacing lines, always use tubing of the same size and material as the original line. Use the old tubing as a template in bending the new line, unless it is too greatly damaged, in which case a template can be made from soft iron wire. Soft aluminum tubing (1100, 3003, or 5052) under ¼-inch outside diameter may be bent by hand.."

34 minutes ago, markgrue said:

AC43.13 spells out the procedure to make lines quite clearly.   This is basic mechanic skills. 

 

Mark

 

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, TravelVeteran said:

broken brake line flare tip.  my mechanic wants to take out the entire line and ship it off to lasar for overhaul.  is there no way to cut the line and add a coupling & a new flare?

Yeah, that's kind of inexplicable...

[smwash02]

3 hours ago, markgrue said:

AC43.13 spells out the procedure to make lines quite clearly.   This is basic mechanic skills. 

 

Mark

Here is a pretty good video of how to do it.

In your shoes, I'd pull the line and remake it with new fittings. Your most complicated task will be bleeding it, at least for me it is.

Edited October 5, 2021 by smwash02

[EricJ]

I don't think I've heard of anybody sending a line off for overhaul before.   Usually you just make a new one or repair the old one.

If there's enough slop left in the line to chop the end off and reflare it, that's the way to go.   There must be enough line left that it positions against the fittings without having to put tension on it.   Otherwise just make a new one.    If your A&P isn't confident doing the work, there are plenty of people around who do this often.    If you make an owner-produced part (e.g., supervise somebody else making a replacement duplicate with the proper materials), be careful that the flare angles of aviation and automotive applications differ, so even a good hydraulic/hose shop needs the aviation flare tools for the ends.   Automotive flare tools will produce the wrong angle to mate to the fittings.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, TravelVeteran said:

i think i found it, 9-18:

"9-30. HYDRAULIC LINES AND FITTINGS. Carefully inspect all lines and fittings at regular intervals to ensure airworthiness. Investigate any evidence of fluid loss or leaks. Check metal lines for leaks, loose anchorage, scratches, kinks, or other damage. Inspect fittings and connections for leakage, looseness, cracks, burrs, or other damage. Replace or repair defective elements. Make sure the lines and hoses do not chafe against one another and are correctly secured and clamped. a. Replacement of Metal Lines. When inspection shows a line to be damaged or defective, replace the entire line or, if the damaged section is localized, a repair section may be inserted. In replacing lines, always use tubing of the same size and material as the original line. Use the old tubing as a template in bending the new line, unless it is too greatly damaged, in which case a template can be made from soft iron wire. Soft aluminum tubing (1100, 3003, or 5052) under ¼-inch outside diameter may be bent by hand.."

 

I wouldn't bend it by hand. Go to Harbor Freight and get one of their cheap universal benders. It will do better than by hand. You can bend the 3003 by hand, but it is like a piece of spaghetti, use the 5052 for anything important.

Edited October 5, 2021 by N201MKTurbo

[Guest]

It’s amazing how far the basic skills of maintainers have fallen.  
 

Clarence

[PT20J]

26 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

It’s amazing how far the basic skills of maintainers have fallen.  
 

Clarence

Some I think are becoming like car mechanics -- they just replace parts until the problem goes away.

[47U]

Is it not true that if any of the old fittings (sleeves or B-nuts) are reused to make the replacement line, then it’s technically a ‘repair’ as opposed to a ‘new’ part?  Also, use of back-up wrenches are important, where applicable. 

This fuel line had a crack at the sleeve, then broke when I removed it. 

 

 

[Shadrach]

22 hours ago, M20Doc said:

It’s amazing how far the basic skills of maintainers have fallen.  
 

Clarence

It’s true. I’m concerned that in ten years time most of the folks around me that can do actual maintenance and fabrication work will retire. Most A&Ps in my area under the age of about 50 are parts exchangers.

[Raymond J1]

If it reassures you... Or not... This problem of lost basic skills is also our problem in Europe.

[tmo]

The flip side of everything getting (much) more expensive is that repairing stuff that can reasonably be repaired might become a thing again.

[bob865]

Wow.  I'm used to seeing swap-tronics for anything with a wire from maintainers here at work.  I didn't realize it was bleeding over into the mechanical side of the world.

[TravelVeteran]

my mechanic had me remove 3 brake lines and mail them into LASAR along with both brake master cylinders because he cant get them to seal properly with the o-ring kit.  ive installed and taken them out for him 7 times now.   keep in mind nothing was leaking to begin with and i never agreed to do an owner assisted annual.  he's had my plane for 8 months now to do an annual that was promised to be completed in 2 weeks.... its a mess but at this point i'm under his mercy.  he wont let me purchase a flare tool or new brake line to replace these with, nor will he let me have another mechanic step in to help finish the work. the only issue with these is one of the tips has a crack on the flare, the other two have rough edges. luckily they were easy to remove and i can easily re-install. 




 

Edited October 7, 2021 by TravelVeteran

[smwash02]

26 minutes ago, TravelVeteran said:

its a mess but at this point i'm under his mercy.  he wont let me purchase a flare tool or new brake line to replace these with, nor will he let me have another mechanic step in to help finish the work. the only issue with these is one of the tips has a crack on the flare, the other two have rough edges. luckily they were easy to remove and i can easily re-install.

You have options, but what makes sense depends how far from done you are.

Establish a relationship with another mechanic and pay them to make the hoses. If you like them and just want this current situation over they can give you a ferry permit to move it. 

Best of luck you, definitely not a fun place to be.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, TravelVeteran said:

my mechanic had me remove 3 brake lines and mail them into LASAR along with both brake master cylinders because he cant get them to seal properly with the o-ring kit.  ive installed and taken them out for him 7 times now.   keep in mind nothing was leaking to begin with and i never agreed to do an owner assisted annual.  he's had my plane for 8 months now to do an annual that was promised to be completed in 2 weeks.... its a mess but at this point i'm under his mercy.  he wont let me purchase a flare tool or new brake line to replace these with, nor will he let me have another mechanic step in to help finish the work. the only issue with these is one of the tips has a crack on the flare, the other two have rough edges. luckily they were easy to remove and i can easily re-install. 
 

Holy crap.   I feel for you.   When I was purchasing my airplane it was essentially held hostage by an IA for an annual that took four months, and that I've spent years undoing the damage (misconfigurations, improper repairs, etc.), that was done during that annual.   I thought that was bad, but you may be topping it.

Def find somebody else so that once that nightmare is over you have a better and more productive ownership experience.   And maybe after the dust settles let us know who to avoid. 

 

[Caz]

Hey Guys, 

 

 Just signed up.  Have been visiting this site for over a year now.  Been a lurker.   Had to sign up after I saw this topic.   I'm currently enrolled in a 147 program to get my A&P.

This is the most basic of repairs.  We spent the last several days learning how to do this and other tubing, hose repairs.  I haven't even finished General yet.  I'm flabbergasted that someone wants to send this off.  An IA no less.  WOW.

It does require an Aviation flare tool...    35-37 degree flare vs Automotive @ 45 degrees.  However a top of the line set of cutters and flaring tool would at most be a couple of hundred dollars.  As an A&P I would think it you would use it so many times it would almost be a required tool set in your most basic of tool sets.

As in I ordered a set of these tools just a couple of days ago.

Just my 2 cents.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Caz!

Timing is everything.

Great first post.

Best regards,

-a-

[MB65E]

Time for another dude!

-Matt

[MB65E]

Welcome CAZ! Lots of techs here too. Let me know if you need anything for your training. What part of the country are you in? 
edit: Texas I see. 
-Matt

[TravelVeteran]

i've offered to bring in another mechanic to finish the work, he wont even hear it.  no one is allowed in his hangar.  hes a dude in his 60's (looks like 80s) and has a lot of personal issues such as going through a divorce etc.  i offered to buy new tubing, buy the flare tool kit, etc. he wont do anything except his way.  my airplane is stuck there at a private airport in pahrump nevada 1 hour from where i live in las vegas.  he came highly recommended by someone and i just blindly trusted and dropped my airplane there after a couple phone calls with the guy.  ive had to drive there and back 25+ times now to do all of the work otherwise nothing gets done whatsoever.  and now, he really hates my guts and makes everything super hard on me, this is just one example.