dlthig Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 Sometimes the cheapest airplane you can buy is the most expensive to own. Airplanes are expensive now, all of them. If you are determined to buy this one, pay to have a Mooney mechanic travel to the airplane. In all likelihood the current owner isn't going to like the deferred MX price. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 25 minutes ago, chriscalandro said: Fire sleeve isn’t required (although it’s nice to have) that ground wire could be a number of things but looks alternator ground sized, not a problem. there is a missing piece of scat (maybe 100$ worth) that is secured using “1 ,2 and 3”. Not a big deal and a 10 minute fix. Fine make me look for more things. The way the probe wires are routed is dumb and they are not properly supported. It will cause them to stop sending data. Which may be why the new ground was added as an attempt to fix. Who leaves their drill shavings sitting around for a picture? The hose size for the fuel sensor looks to be the wrong size. We need to know why the heater hose was deleted. Was is pumping bad things to the cabin, because it has cracks either from the missing clamp or because it was not repaired from the nose over event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalstop Posted October 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 1 hour ago, chriscalandro said: Fire sleeve isn’t required (although it’s nice to have) that ground wire could be a number of things but looks alternator ground sized, not a problem. there is a missing piece of scat (maybe 100$ worth) that is secured using “1 ,2 and 3”. Not a big deal and a 10 minute fix. Thanks! What is the “scat” you’re referring to on 1, 2, and 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalstop Posted October 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Yetti said: Who ever repaired this sucks at fixing things. A hammer and dolly would straighten up the firewall Doc mentioned that is easy to access. There is a fuel hose without a fire sleeve. The exhaust is way too close to the bend in the firewall which is why they left the clamp off. That clamp is really important. I normally say to have 10K in the bank after the purchase. I would say have 20K in the bank for this one. There is going to be lots of things to fix. If you know how to wrench on things that might be fun for you. If you want a turn key flying machine, might was to move along. There is supposed to be a grounding strap up top of the firewall there. Someone is trying to solve some electrical issues with that throwdown ground wire. Yetti-thanks for the thorough review! why would the exhaust be too close yo the firewall? Is it because the exhaust was installed correctly, because the engine is pushed back too much, the exhaust is warped, or impossible to know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, goalstop said: Yetti-thanks for the thorough review! why would the exhaust be too close yo the firewall? Is it because the exhaust was installed correctly, because the engine is pushed back too much, the exhaust is warped, or impossible to know? that is a ball joint on the Exhaust Pipe. So the exhaust pipe can rotate around and stuff. There is hopefully a J type hangar further aft. The missing hanger is the main support for the exhaust pipe. Being that close to the firewall you are going to get some burning of the paint and possibly some knocking when the engine shuts down. The engine can move a bit in the Motor mounts. clearly the plane hit the ground on that side so what was done to rehab the exhaust should be in the log book. Edited October 1, 2021 by Yetti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalstop Posted October 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 8 hours ago, carusoam said: Looks like a project that might not be finished yet…(?) 1) Look close at the pics of the trailing edge… those are remnants of the fuel leak getting that far before evaporating… each rivet is working like a wick to evaporate fuel around it… 2) Have a look inside the cowl… the engine mount has been repainted from the original black it probably was born with… but there is some missing paint there as well… 3) Nice pics… very clear…. 4) Find a similar Mooney and see what the differences are to this one…. 5) Check the logs to see what they say was done… 6) Is this a new ground wire? Did the old one wear the paint off the engine mount? Is that drill shavings? 7) See if you recognize what I, II, III, IV are referring to… V would be the missing clamp… VI, the oil drip… I most likely have exaggerated what is going on in the pics… my observation and writing skills are a bit limited… I’m working on them still. Best regards, -a- I'm stumped on #iii. i is cabin heat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, goalstop said: I'm stumped on #iii. i is cabin heat? III is where you affix the large clamp that holds the heater hose. Mine has 2 of them but mine are both vertical. Can't remember if both are in use or just the one for the SCATT tubing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriscalandro Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Yetti said: III is where you affix the large clamp that holds the heater hose. Mine has 2 of them but mine are both vertical. Can't remember if both are in use or just the one for the SCATT tubing. It’s either the heater or the bypass dump out the cowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/29/2021 at 8:52 PM, goalstop said: Hi all, I'm a first time aircraft buyer and have my eyes set on a 1964 M20E. The aircraft has had a bit of an incident in the past (hit a wing and nosed into a ditch in 1990's) but has flown since then. In the pre-buy inspection, I'm having my mechanic be overly meticulous about the wing spar, overall wings, corrosion, and front-end damage inspection. So far, he's come back with a report of: + Seeping fuel tanks (blue, green and brown under wings) + "cracking and wrinkling" in the lower firewall + Crack in paint on the engine mount - want to do further inspection to make sure it's just a surface crack Plane is a "good deal" but I'm afraid of maintenance adding up so quickly that it soon becomes a lemon. + How much of an airworthiness issue is a firewall wrinkle? + When is it time to reseal the fuel tanks? Do all of you have some leakage, or is it something that should be fixed as soon as a seep is identified? Will have more detail tomorrow... im just not seeing any deal breakers here with what is shown on photos....firewall damage ocurred 30 year ago and has been judged not to be an airworthyness issue in the past,the fuel leak appears to be from sump drain valve,cracked paint with question about engine mount tube easily checked by paint removal and penetrant dye inspection...these items are minor at this point...the real items are,engine condition with boroscope ,compression checks etc and proceeding with corrosion inspection of spar ,tubes etc,,,those are the deal breakers on a 50 year old aircraft... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 The fuel tank is suffering more than just a leaking drain valve. The fuel staining is running down the lower spar cap, pooling in the inner skin and dripping out the drain hole Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond J1 Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 8 hours ago, Yetti said: III est l'endroit où vous fixez la grande pince qui maintient le tuyau de chauffage. Le mien en a 2 mais les miens sont tous les deux verticaux. Je ne me souviens pas si les deux sont utilisés ou seulement celui pour le tube SCATT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond J1 Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, M20Doc said: Le réservoir de carburant souffre plus qu'un simple robinet de vidange qui fuit. La tache de carburant coule le long du chapeau de longeron inférieur, s'accumule dans la peau interne et s'égoutte par le trou de vidange Clarence See more... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2021 Report Share Posted October 2, 2021 so my guess, the airplane is going through some maintenance, hence the metal shavings, the ground cable appears to be some 2 gauge cable it beats no ground cable, the Scat duct from the heater to the firewall has yet to be installed as does the bypass Scat duct hence the missing Adel clamps, the oversized fuel hose is actually the propeller governor oil hose installed in place the stainless steel Lycoming tube, it’s just not connected to the governor yet, but it’s hard to tell as we can’t see the end fitting in the picture, the missing tail pipe support is not yet installed but the bolt and nut are installed in the swivel block on the firewall, the oil has been changed and the suction screen was done as well, the cap has new safety wire not painted Lycoming gray. All of this is only my guess as I’m not there in person. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 2, 2021 Report Share Posted October 2, 2021 Nice pics for comparison JR! Goalstop, Its like you were able to run out to the airport to see another Mooney… just your run took you to France, Canada, and a few stops in the US… You got some additional eyes on that plane that include some long time Mooney owners, mechanics, and other technically skilled people… Lots of small things that need help… or further inspection… to know how much they are going to cost to fix… You can probably look inside the fuel tanks yourself to get a feeling for how ugly they are… or aren’t. Some tanks look terrible before they start to leak…. Some older sealants have a crummy history… they start breaking down before they pass the point of no return… If you see sealant falling off, missing, or deeply discolored, patched all over the place…. Expect a reseal is coming… PP thoughts only, not a mechanic… Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBlue Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 12:20 AM, carusoam said: If you read up on PPIs PrePurchase inspections… you will find lists of things to consider… including who, what, where…. Etc… Hi carusoam…. Hitting you up again in this thread as well. I searched for “PPIs PrePurchase inspections”…. Are you able to provide a talk-on please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 19 minutes ago, WildBlue said: Hi carusoam…. Hitting you up again in this thread as well. I searched for “PPIs PrePurchase inspections”…. Are you able to provide a talk-on please? PPIs are funky inspections that have no set standards… They are intended to protect your wallet as much as anything else… The basic PPI is an inspection to verify everything is in airworthy condition… It is best performed by somebody knowledgable with Mooneys… It is also a good idea that the inspection is independent of the prior mechanics… (laws of statistics, and buying things) Some people want all the AW issues covered, and a list of non-AW issues generated… How much it costs is variable… depending often on the value of the plane… If the plane costs as much as a new car… a day’s labor can cover most of the main issues. If the Plane costs as much as a house… expect a couple of days or three… to review everything including the avionics. Ultimately… the PPI can be completed to meet the requirements of an annual inspection… giving the new owner a full year to enjoy before opening things up again… All of this makes buying a plane far away… more of a challenge… Next steps are writing a purchasing agreement… How does that sound? This is off the top of my head… I’m no expert at this stuff… PP thoughts only, not a mechanic… Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 7 hours ago, WildBlue said: Hi carusoam…. Hitting you up again in this thread as well. I searched for “PPIs PrePurchase inspections”…. Are you able to provide a talk-on please? There is a PPI check list in the Downloads section above under Safety and Techniques Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalstop Posted October 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) Well.... I bit the bullet! The seller & I landed on a fair price given the discrepancies, and now I have a bit extra funding to put into the plane and fix things like leaky fuel tanks & "dated" interior. Excited to bring her to her new home! (after 4 weeks of maintenance installing new equipment...) huge thanks to all on this board who helped with the inspection from behind the computer! I’ll be swinging back in more often! Now for 2 more flattering pictures than the others I've put on this thread Edited October 7, 2021 by goalstop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Fantastic! Go fly. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) Looks nice! Good luck with the remaining repairs and I hope you get to fly it a lot and enjoy it! Edited October 7, 2021 by EricJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 2 hours ago, goalstop said: Well.... I bit the bullet! The seller & I landed on a fair price given the discrepancies, and now I have a bit extra funding to put into the plane and fix things like leaky fuel tanks & "dated" interior. Excited to bring her to her new home! (after 4 weeks of maintenance installing new equipment...) huge thanks to all on this board who helped with the inspection from behind the computer! I’ll be swinging back in more often! Now for 2 more flattering pictures than the others I've put on this thread Congratulations! You look good in her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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