Forgive my ignorance…

[Stetson20]

… but is there better (more modern?) hardware than the traditional five position key starter (off - left - right - both - start)? 
 

I feel like I may snap the key off one of these days trying to start my engine. 
 

Any thoughts either way on it? I’m musing while on a working trip. Flying 737s but wanting to fly my Mooney! 

[47U]

This thread might provide some insight…

 

[Mooney Dog]

Can always go to an EIS and get switches! 

[ArtVandelay]

It should not be that hard to turn…and it’s push to start?

[Stetson20]

4 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

It should not be that hard to turn…and it’s push to start?

Probably just my inexperience. Again, just musing.

[Stetson20]

9 minutes ago, 47U said:

This thread might provide some insight…

 

Thanks! Just what I wanted to research.

[carusoam]

The modern switch is nice…. But has a traditional safety problem associated with… getting left in the on position…

 

Notes about the old Bendix switch…

They can actually be OH’d… buy the kit, make it like brand new…

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Niko182]

6 hours ago, Stetson20 said:

Thanks! Just what I wanted to research.

I have this and like it. Would highly recommend. Just an FYI, its easier to leave the mags on with this.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

You could put in two toggle switches and a push button and be like a single engine twin.

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

You could put in two toggle switches and a push button and be like a single engine twin.

I think it would need safety bars and safety covers to make it proper.  just a toggle switch would be boring.

[N201MKTurbo]

2 minutes ago, Yetti said:

I think it would need safety bars and safety covers to make it proper.  just a toggle switch would be boring.

You would need the guarded start button. There is one on EBay with 60 years and 5000 hours on it for $480. You would need the switch bail wire for the switches so you can turn them both off with one push.

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

You could put in two toggle switches and a push button and be like a single engine twin.

That’s my 1946 C-140, except it still has the pull cable starter.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, A64Pilot said:

That’s my 1946 C-140, except it still has the pull cable starter.

I just rigged one of those last night on my project 56 172. It had the bolt that hits the button on the starter out so far the gears barely engaged when the starter spun. It is all happy now.

[47U]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

You could put in two toggle switches and a push button and be like a single engine twin.

Exactly what I did, except I didn’t use a dedicated start button.  I put two DPDT switches above the audio panel in the center stack (where nothing else fits).  I modified a mag switch electrical schematic I found on a RV website.  I didn’t use a start button, rather both switches need to be UP (spring loaded) to energize the starter relay and simultaneously ground the right mag P-lead.    No more after-fire during mag checks with the lag time on the SureFly.  In-flight mag checks are a non-event. 

I moved the master switch there, too, and put a cage on it to prevent the chances of bumping it in turbulence.

 

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I just rigged one of those last night on my project 56 172. It had the bolt that hits the button on the starter out so far the gears barely engaged when the starter spun. It is all happy now.

I learned to hand-prop when I worked at the flying club because we had a couple of airplanes with these and they'd occassionally ruin a starter.  The club solution was to have the line boy hand prop them until the new starter arrived. 

They are kinda cool in their simplicity, though.

[NotarPilot]

On 9/29/2021 at 11:00 AM, EricJ said:

I learned to hand-prop when I worked at the flying club because we had a couple of airplanes with these and they'd occassionally ruin a starter.  The club solution was to have the line boy hand prop them until the new starter arrived. 

They are kinda cool in their simplicity, though.

How would they ruin starters?

[EricJ]

8 minutes ago, NotarPilot said:

How would they ruin starters?

The type mentioned with a pull handle uses a lever to pull the gear engaged, and then a button on the starter energizes the starter when the lever is at full travel.   If the cable sticks sometimes it doesn't fully disengage the gear after the engine starts or disengages too slowly, or if the operator is slow to release it it can get ground up a bit. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by EricJ

[N201MKTurbo]

6 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

How would they ruin starters?

The starter has a spring loaded gear on it. The gear has a one way clutch on it so the engine won't back drive the starter. 

The lever that the cable pulls needs to be rigged so the gear is fully engaged before the motor is run. The one I was working on recently had the lever rigged so the motor would run with the gear barely engaged. I think this is the root cause of most of the failures.

Eric is right that the cable needs to be pushed back in after a start, you can't depend on the spring to push the cable back in.

The Cessna 170 International forum, is going to get jealous that we are talking about 0-300s on our forum.

https://forum.cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2696

Edited October 4, 2021 by N201MKTurbo