Is This Schadenfreude?

[GeeBee]

I'm not a "schadenfreude" kind of guy but.....this may define it. With all the plethora of TFRs, maybe someone will notice it is a little out of hand?

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/west-point-182-busts-united-nations-tfr/

[carusoam]

Only if you enjoyed one government person’s unknowing insect getting caught in another government person’s known spider web…. 

wonder what the proper carpet dance is that goes with busting a TFR that is just down the River…

That flight instructor is up the creek, just by flying down the river… without an I-Paddle…

 

Let’s see what the result is…

Does the plethora of goofy TFRs continue?  It’s been 20years already… where are the accompanying TDRs…  temporary driving restrictions…?  Limits to driving a Ryder truck within 3nms… when busted, a militarized Hummer cuts you off while shooting flairs in your general direction… that should get some attention…

Does an otherwise good flight instructor now fly though dozens of hoops to show he is still airworthy?

Or…. does a good flying lab class get cut from the curriculum… Doing this in a flight sim, would cost substantially less, and poor execution would not show up in a widely distributed aviation publication…

 

I’m hoping for some comedic value to come from this…. Some form of Security theater comedy… 

Send a link of this thread to Bryan with a Y….   Aviation Comic theater is what Bryan is really good at… 

 

PP thoughts only, not a comedian…

Best regards,

-a-

 

Its been a while since I had heard this term…  makes it a MS Word of the Day contender…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude

[steingar]

Security theatre at its finest. Between rising insurance costs and increasing security nonsense I fully expect to be among the last generation of private non-professional (by Odin I hate the word amateur) pilots.

[PilotX]

Given my lack of long body landing precision I should get a sticker that lets me fly anywhere, anytime, I would certainly float hundreds of feet if not yards beyond my point of intended touchdown, so any motorcades or even stadiums should be pretty safe.

[GeeBee]

I also notice the "government airplane" was allowed to return to base. You or I would have been forced down at the nearest suitable.

 

[PilotX]

38 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

I also notice the "government airplane" was allowed to return to base. You or I would have been forced down at the nearest suitable.

 

Jokes on them unless I have a 9000 foot runway.

 

[Marauder]

I listened to the ATC interaction. I was amazed at how much radar assistance ATC had to provide the F16. That’s not the airspace to be loitering around looking for a plane over the Hudson.


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[jaylw314]

20 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I listened to the ATC interaction. I was amazed at how much radar assistance ATC had to provide the F16. That’s not the airspace to be loitering around looking for a plane over the Hudson.


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My understanding is that it's difficult to find other aircraft when they're nearby with radar.  The scan volume of the radar is like a cone that gets smaller as it gets closer, so for a very close aircraft you'd need to know where to point the radar to find it.  On top of that, for low-flying slow aircraft, it's tough for airborne radar to pick those out of ground clutter, and there's certainly a lot of ground clutter in the area.

Communications was also a bit of an issue.  The F-16 pilot asked a couple times for BRA (bearing, range, altitude) calls, but I guess civilian ATC is not trained or don't have the tools to do so, they only gave clock-face instead of numeric bearings and skipping range or altitude.  I'm guessing the F-16 pilot wasn't briefed that ATC doesn't have the same capabilities that AWACS radar does...

[A64Pilot]

You guys remember this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust

It’s actually very hard to intercept a slow airplane at lower levels, and nearly impossible at nap of the earth altitudes, which they weren’t of course, the lower you go and further outside of the fighters envelope the tougher it gets.

However the idea off them getting off easy I can tell you as a Retired Military Aviator isn’t going to happen, most probably it’s the end of the flight instructors career, he may not receive punishment, but I pretty much guarantee you that he won’t get promoted and will be separated form the service and receive no Retired pay etc. The student may be hosed too.

It would be better to be kicked out as then at least you can start your civilian job search, but likely he will have to serve a few more years knowing he has no chance at advancement or Retirement, pretty tough punishment in my opinion, way more than any civilian would receive.

Edited September 26, 2021 by A64Pilot

[EricJ]

10 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

My understanding is that it's difficult to find other aircraft when they're nearby with radar.  The scan volume of the radar is like a cone that gets smaller as it gets closer, so for a very close aircraft you'd need to know where to point the radar to find it.  On top of that, for low-flying slow aircraft, it's tough for airborne radar to pick those out of ground clutter, and there's certainly a lot of ground clutter in the area.

Communications was also a bit of an issue.  The F-16 pilot asked a couple times for BRA (bearing, range, altitude) calls, but I guess civilian ATC is not trained or don't have the tools to do so, they only gave clock-face instead of numeric bearings and skipping range or altitude.  I'm guessing the F-16 pilot wasn't briefed that ATC doesn't have the same capabilities that AWACS radar does...

If the F-16 pilot had a tab with an EFB and a Stratux for ADS-B-in it would be pretty straightforward to find specific traffic.   It's not confidence building that an actual attacker in a GA airplane could be difficult for the defenders to locate when many civilians have the tech to do it.

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

You guys remember this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust

It’s actually very hard to intercept a slow airplane at lower levels, and nearly impossible at nap of the earth altitudes, which they weren’t of course, the lower you go and further outside of the fighters envelope the tougher it gets.

However the idea off them getting off easy I can tell you as a Retired Military Aviator isn’t going to happen, most probably it’s the end of the flight instructors career, he may not receive punishment, but I pretty much guarantee you that he won’t get promoted and will be separated form the service and receive no Retired pay etc. The student may be hosed too.

It would be better to be kicked out as then at least you can start your civilian job search, but likely he will have to serve a few more years knowing he has no chance at advancement or Retirement, pretty tough punishment in my opinion, way more than any civilian would receive.

or this guy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Eugene_Corder

33 minutes ago, EricJ said:

If the F-16 pilot had a tab with an EFB and a Stratux for ADS-B-in it would be pretty straightforward to find specific traffic.   It's not confidence building that an actual attacker in a GA airplane could be difficult for the defenders to locate when many civilians have the tech to do it.

If the TOI is so equipped, although the rebroadcasting delays with ADS-B would make it somewhat less useful for someone going 400 knots...

 

[A64Pilot]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

If the F-16 pilot had a tab with an EFB and a Stratux for ADS-B-in it would be pretty straightforward to find specific traffic.   It's not confidence building that an actual attacker in a GA airplane could be difficult for the defenders to locate when many civilians have the tech to do it.

The marine version of ADSB is called AIS, it broadcasts who you are, course and speed, it’s not an expensive box, couple hundred bucks

Over the years coming from the direction of Cuba and seemingly just for kicks I’ve been stopped by every law enforcement agency in existence I believe, and every one of them started out with who are you and where are you coming from? AIS woud have told them that without stopping me, yet none of them had it, they had the money to run quad 300 HP outboards to chase down a sailboat but apparently not enough for AIS.

The whole concept of a terrorist in a 172 is just plain silly, you want to know what could be dangerous as hell though? A concrete truck full of ANFO.

Edited September 26, 2021 by A64Pilot

[A64Pilot]

2 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Eugene_Corder

 

 

This one is why we have keys in Army helicopters now.

https://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/prestons-wild-white-house-ride-180962400/