Blue on Top Posted October 11, 2021 Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 @Shadrach Thank you for teaching me. I am learning, too. CG makes a large difference, too. Most early airplanes (through Ds) have a tendency to be more forward on CG. A recent M20C "client" said that there wasn't enough elevator to flare the airplane ... let alone stall it. The solution was that the pilot wasn't trimming enough. Now the owner LOVES the way the airplane lands ... after nearly 30 years. M20E have a tendency to be aft CG (not sure why with the heavier engine/propeller, and the long bodies are definitely more on the forward side. You've convinced me to write the next "The Mooney Flyer" article to be "A Trip Around the (CG) Envelope." Thanks for the great idea. I always need ideas on what you need to know. In the process of writing the articles, I learn a lot, too! Thanks! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted October 11, 2021 Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 44 minutes ago, Blue on Top said: @Shadrach Thank you for teaching me. I am learning, too. CG makes a large difference, too. Most early airplanes (through Ds) have a tendency to be more forward on CG. A recent M20C "client" said that there wasn't enough elevator to flare the airplane ... let alone stall it. The solution was that the pilot wasn't trimming enough. Now the owner LOVES the way the airplane lands ... after nearly 30 years. M20E have a tendency to be aft CG (not sure why with the heavier engine/propeller, and the long bodies are definitely more on the forward side. You've convinced me to write the next "The Mooney Flyer" article to be "A Trip Around the (CG) Envelope." Thanks for the great idea. I always need ideas on what you need to know. In the process of writing the articles, I learn a lot, too! Thanks! I look forward to reading it! Here’s another idea for you relating to go arounds. Many suggest the flight characteristics of a dirty airframe is borderline dangerous outside of the approach and landing phase. There is a rumor around here that these aircraft will barely climb with the gear and flaps hanging out. Certainly performance is degraded relative to climbing with the airframe clean but my personal experience is that that my plane climbs just fine with full flaps and gear down as long as I adjust my target IAS downward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue on Top Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Shadrach said: Here’s another idea for you relating to go arounds. Many suggest the flight characteristics of a dirty airframe is borderline dangerous outside of the approach and landing phase. There is a rumor around here that these aircraft will barely climb with the gear and flaps hanging out. Certainly performance is degraded relative to climbing with the airframe clean but my personal experience is that that my plane climbs just fine with full flaps and gear down as long as I adjust my target IAS downward Agree with you, but getting rid of drag is good, too. Rate of Climb is simply excess Hp/Weight. Obviously, weight is what it is, but less of it is better for climb. The more drag one has, the less excess Hp there is for climb. The lift difference between full flaps and half flaps is small as the slot has already opened and the flaps mainly rotate in the last half of travel. Best would be to immediately raise the flaps halfway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, Blue on Top said: Agree with you, but getting rid of drag is good, too. Rate of Climb is simply excess Hp/Weight. Obviously, weight is what it is, but less of it is better for climb. The more drag one has, the less excess Hp there is for climb. The lift difference between full flaps and half flaps is small as the slot has already opened and the flaps mainly rotate in the last half of travel. Best would be to immediately raise the flaps halfway. Yes but forward visibility during full flap climb out is really nice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue on Top Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Shadrach said: Yes but forward visibility during full flap climb out is really nice. Way true! But don't overspeed the flaps or gear. Edited October 12, 2021 by Blue on Top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 In my M20C… 180hp… full flap go-around, never was short on power to climb… This was true wherever whenever I was flying it…. Unfortunately, changing the DA to somewhere else may have different results… Go-arounds were common at an airport I used on Cape Cod…. Short runway, with nothing but a windsock for weather info… First approach was comfortably quicker than the second approach…. Sometimes the wind would die out near the ground, sometimes it didn’t…. PP recollections only, not a CFI… Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 A denizen of this site had a trim lock accident, where the trim got stuck at the full nose up position. It took the efforts of both her and her husband to hold the nose down enough to get them to a safe landing. I've done it intentionally and unintentionally, and it is a lot of force in my fire breathing 180 hp C. I can't imagine it's very easy in the aircraft with larger engines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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