Basic Med

[timpercarpio]

Last year my insurance company dropped my coverage because they didn’t want to insure older pilots flying complex airplanes. I was able to get new insurance with Avemco, but they said no Basic Med and a Class 3 medical every year. Does anyone know of an insurance company that would insure me with Basic Med?  I’m 80 years old, I fly about 150 hours a year and I have Basic Med. 

[toto]

Best bet is to talk to a broker who could shop it around.

@Parker_Woodruff will hook you up. 

 

[toto]

For what it’s worth, I’ve had good experience with an 80+ named insured on Global Aero. But that was for a fixed gear single, and I suspect that they’re tougher on retracts. 

[StevenL757]

@timpercarpio, with great respect, and assuming no other channels are available, is there a reason (besides financial) that you wouldn’t be able to obtain a Class 3 and go the Avemco route?  You might pay a bit more through them, but you’d be able to stay flying that beautiful “J”.

I sincerely hope all works out well for you.

Steve

[Parker_Woodruff]

37 minutes ago, timpercarpio said:

Last year my insurance company dropped my coverage because they didn’t want to insure older pilots flying complex airplanes. I was able to get new insurance with Avemco, but they said no Basic Med and a Class 3 medical every year. Does anyone know of an insurance company that would insure me with Basic Med?  I’m 80 years old, I fly about 150 hours a year and I have Basic Med. 

Tim,

This could be a challenge getting a carrier to write you as new business at age 80 and not require a 3rd class (or higher) medical certificate. 

[Bartman]

Consider other options....
No hull coverage

Fly naked 

[MikeOH]

5 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Tim,

This could be a challenge getting a carrier to write you as new business at age 80 and not require a 3rd class (or higher) medical certificate. 

@Parker_Woodruff

I just have to ask...does actual accident data support:

1) That older pilots have a higher accident rate.

2) That older pilots with basic med have a higher accident rate than those with a third class

[carusoam]

MS data shows our flying octogenarians are as safe as the other cohorts…

When it comes to stupid pilot tricks… it is tough to be young…. 

GU landings are pretty well spread out… there are soooo many,  Parker probably has a few to pick from…. Most GUs tend to not come from MS….

 

Continuous discussion on the topic is probably helpful….

Best regards,

-a-

[Mooney Dog]

Have you tried falcon insurance? They can usually get pretty good deals. 

[toto]

4 hours ago, Mooney Dog said:

Have you tried falcon insurance? They can usually get pretty good deals. 

Unfortunately there’s a small number of underwriters, and if they’ve turned you down via one broker, they’ll likely turn you down via the next. Avemco is always the backstop. 

I’m surprised that the UFOs haven’t gotten more involved on the advocacy side of this, but they seem to lean on AOPA for help. 

https://www.ufopilots.org/post/aircraft-insurance-issues

[timpercarpio]

Thanks for all of the responses.  It’s not a financial issue, Avemco has been pretty reasonable. I was just hoping for Basic Med which would give me 4 years instead of a yearly Class 3. I was with Falcon and Starr insurance. They were the ones who did not renew.  I’m going to contact Parker just to explore my options. 

[A64Pilot]

The catch with a class medical is of course if you ever fail one, which obviously becomes more and more likely with age.

If rules don’t change, I intend to fly with basic med until insurence will no longer accept that, then self insure.

[steingar]

@timpercarpio, you should go with the class 3.  Is there anyone looking out for you?  Is there anyone who can tell you it's time to stop?  Time might not yet have come, but the sad thing is that it will come eventually, it comes for us all.  It could be the AME is the one who tells you it's time to stop. 

May that be on a bright sunny say in 2042.

[Parker_Woodruff]

7 hours ago, MikeOH said:

@Parker_Woodruff

I just have to ask...does actual accident data support:

1) That older pilots have a higher accident rate.

2) That older pilots with basic med have a higher accident rate than those with a third class

Anecdotally, there seems to be a high rate of operational losses with older pilots.

I don’t think aggregated data like this exists. Internally, insurance companies can, at best, note a trend.

Actuarial data can be found in the auto insurance world…and I imagine atrophy of skills isn’t just limited to auto drivers.

Insurance companies are getting close to the premiums they want…they're not going to chase outlier business if they don’t have to.

Imagine working for a publicly traded company and your initials show up next to a claim on the daily loss report. Do you want to be the one that signed off an outlier for a few thousand in premium and now you’re looking at $1MM+ in claim reserve?

There are a lot of competent, proficient UFOs. There are sadly quite a few who are not. And there are CFIs that shouldn’t have signed off their last flight review…

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

@timpercarpio, you should go with the class 3.  Is there anyone looking out for you?  Is there anyone who can tell you it's time to stop?  Time might not yet have come, but the sad thing is that it will come eventually, it comes for us all.  It could be the AME is the one who tells you it's time to stop. 

May that be on a bright sunny say in 2042.

That’s the way it used to be, the AME who was a friend and who you have gone for years would look at you and tell you not to take your Medical now or advise you maybe to not take one period.

Now there is paperwork filled out and submitted before hand and the AME can’t take your application and throw it in the trash like they used to could have, or so I have been told.

A good friend who used to be my AME also advised to never have your regular Dr be your AME, he wasn’t telling me to hide things, but I got the impression that only answering questions asked might be a good idea.

So fast forward a few years, new AME told me one flight physical that he was going to write an order to have me take a sleep study as my age combined with my body mass may mean I need a CPAP. I laughed and told him I had been using a CPAP for a couple of years, he got upset and asked me why I hadn’t informed him. I answered that I assumed if the FAA had considered it important then it would have been one of those couple of dozen questions you have to answer.

‘I don’t think he was pleased, from then on I had to go through a bunch of crap every year ref the CPAP to keep my Class2.

But honestly, if they wanted to know, why didn’t they ask?

Edited September 14, 2021 by A64Pilot

[Hank]

23 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

That’s the way it used to be, the AME who was a friend and who you have gone for years would look at you and tell you not to take your Medical now or advise you maybe to not take one period.

Now there is paperwork filled out and submitted before hand and the AME can’t take your application and throw it in the trash like they used to could have, or so I have been told.

A good friend who used to be my AME also advised to never have your regular Dr be your AME, he wasn’t telling me to hide things, but I got the impression that only answering questions asked might be a good idea.

So fast forward a few years, new AME told me one flight physical that he was going to write an order to have me take a sleep study as my age combined with my body mass may mean I need a CPAP. I laughed and told him I had been using a CPAP for a couple of years, he got upset and asked me why I hadn’t informed him. I answered that I assumed if the FAA had considered it important then it would have been one of those couple of dozen questions you have to answer.

‘I don’t think he was pleased, from then on I had to go through a bunch of crap every year ref the CPAP to keep my Class2.

But honestly, if they wanted to know, why didn’t they ask?

It's time for you to get a new AME . . . .

[KB4]

Ask the AME to complete the entire 3d Class exam BEFORE LOGGING into MedEX.  The exam does not officially begin unless and until he/she logs in. Any issues can be addresses without FAA knowledge or consent and hopefully you can come back and pass at later date.  
 

If you fail a Medical, you CANNOT get BasicMed the easy way.  So if you think you are on cusp of not passing vision or any other part, don’t let them log in. Go to another AME if they are unwilling to complete the exam without logging in to MedEX. 
 

 

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

It's time for you to get a new AME . . . .

I no longer fly for a living, so I just do basic med. Unless rules change, I plan on staying that way

[Hank]

1 minute ago, A64Pilot said:

I no longer fly for a living, so I just do basic med. Unless rules change, I plan on staying that way

You and me both, brother! I used the local Urgent Care shop, on my way home from work, instead of either "local" AME, one 50 miles east and the other 50 miles west. Keeps me out of the pediatrician's office, too.

[A64Pilot]

I’m retired military and used to go to the Jax naval hospital, they did my first and last basic med for me, since I’ve moved not sure who I will use next, but basic med seems, well pretty basic to me, which I agree with as I see no more danger to the public with me in a truck at highway speeds than an aluminum can at altitude.

Just the CPAP nonsense was a PIA for my class 2, I can’t imagine what a real special issuance would be like, I have a friend that was a Pancreatic cancer survivor, apparently no one survives that, so every year when he finishes a medical. he starts on the next one, gathering whatever the FAA wants that I guess differs from year to year, add to that he’s old so I’m sure that doesn’t help.

[hammdo]

That is why I did basic med this year. Did 2 years in a row for 3rd class - my cardiologist does my basic med now. I see him twice a year so he would know if the ticker is having problems.

My 3rd class med tests all focused primarily on the heart - thus the decision to go basic med. Basic med was supposed to 'help' us - go figure...

-Don