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Surefly Installation Recommendation -- Southwest US


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My aircraft:  1984 M20J with IO-360-A3B6.

I may be pulling the trigger on installing a Surefly in the next couple of months.  Any recommendation as to installers in the southern California, Nevada, Arizona area?  Also, does it make sense for me to buy the components first then find an installer?  I know I asked the question a few month ago but it looks like the landscape may have changed. 

I noticed on the Surefly web site they have preferred installers.  However, Schewendy at Chino, which would be close to homebase, have not been returning my calls or emails.  The next closest is in Prescott Arizona.

One more question:  I saw on the Aircraft Spruce page where it says that if your EIS uses the mag P-lead then call Surefly for additional information -- my RPM gauge and EIS (Insight G4) uses the P-lead for RPM.  Does anybody what the issue or concern is?

 

Thanks,

Bruce

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It’s really a straightforward installation; any competent shop can do it. I would check with SureFly and make sure the new version is available with the faster boot time to eliminate the stumble when checking mags. Also, if you have a 28v system, definitely get the new version because it has a wider input voltage tolerance and many 28v systems have had problems with SureFlys cutting out unless you install their power conditioner which is a rather large module coupled with a very large electrolytic capacitor all of which has to be mounted in the engine compartment. Heat’s not particularly good for electrolytic capacitors and you end up with a lot of stuff energized all the time. The engineering term is kludge.

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Wonder if that guy in Tempe is close enough… :)

He knows all the tech details… all the way to the center of the engine’s core… took pics… and posted them here…

He is familiar with the hassles of minor electronic noise… and has a mitigation strategy…

When it comes to adding parts on the outside of the engine’s core… he put a turbo system on his own Mooney’s IO360…

Wonder if there is any time in his schedule…?

 

For getting stuff of this scale done… I like to know who is doing the work… in case I have questions… before, during and after the work is completed…

It turns out… I have a lot of questions….  :)

Best regards,

-a-

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22 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

New 28v input voltage is not available until September? I’ve been put on the call list as I’m hoping they get one in before my annual is finish so I can get it installed now with everything opened up. 

The hardest part is running the wire because you have to remove part of the interior. If you have that out now, I’d run the wire in preparation. The mag replacement isn’t difficult. Figure out where you are going to get a manifold pressure connection. I took it off the #4 cylinder. 

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13 minutes ago, PT20J said:

The hardest part is running the wire because you have to remove part of the interior. If you have that out now, I’d run the wire in preparation. The mag replacement isn’t difficult. Figure out where you are going to get a manifold pressure connection. I took it off the #4 cylinder. 

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Well I won’t need manifold connection because I will be fixed timing as it’s going on a turbo engine nor would I rarely see that benefit since advanced timing is for below 25” and I just never run that low in cruise. Also if that pressure connection ever got a leak and advanced my timing on me especially in the FL’s I’m sure my engine would throw a piston at me in disgust :)

but thank you on the prewiring runner. That’s an excellent cost saving tip!

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1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Wonder if that guy in Tempe is close enough… :)

He knows all the tech details… all the way to the center of the engine’s core… took pics… and posted them here…

He is familiar with the hassles of minor electronic noise… and has a mitigation strategy…

When it comes to adding parts on the outside of the engine’s core… he put a turbo system on his own Mooney’s IO360…

Wonder if there is any time in his schedule…?

 

For getting stuff of this scale done… I like to know who is doing the work… in case I have questions… before, during and after the work is completed…

It turns out… I have a lot of questions….  :)

Best regards,

-a-

I just told my employer that I can’t work for them anymore Because of the new mask mandate. I may have more time to work on airplanes.

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23 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Bruce, those devices pick up signals from the P leads. The SureFly doesn't emit those signals. You just need to move those devices to the P-lead of the remaining magneto

My stock RPM gage gets it's signals from the P-leads, wired to the ignition switch then to a couple of resistors.  So how do I get "left and right" RPM or do "mag/SIM checks" then?

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9 minutes ago, MisfitSELF said:

My stock RPM gage gets it's signals from the P-leads, wired to the ignition switch then to a couple of resistors.  So how do I get "left and right" RPM or do "mag/SIM checks" then?

Call SureFly -- I believe they have a solution for this.

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Surefly just told me they will be making the first batch of sim6c with the new voltage regulator starting Sept 20th. I’m getting my battery wire installed now at annual thanks to PT20J excellent suggestion and depending on how long the annual takes will either get the surefly before they close my airplane up  or i will fly it after annual to Granbury airport and have them install it there. 

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On 8/24/2021 at 12:14 PM, MisfitSELF said:

My aircraft:  1984 M20J with IO-360-A3B6.

I may be pulling the trigger on installing a Surefly in the next couple of months.  Any recommendation as to installers in the southern California, Nevada, Arizona area?  Also, does it make sense for me to buy the components first then find an installer?  I know I asked the question a few month ago but it looks like the landscape may have changed. 

I noticed on the Surefly web site they have preferred installers.  However, Schewendy at Chino, which would be close to homebase, have not been returning my calls or emails.  The next closest is in Prescott Arizona.

One more question:  I saw on the Aircraft Spruce page where it says that if your EIS uses the mag P-lead then call Surefly for additional information -- my RPM gauge and EIS (Insight G4) uses the P-lead for RPM.  Does anybody what the issue or concern is?

 

Thanks,

Bruce

I just had my regular mechanic do mine. He read the directions and had it done pretty quickly.  I removed the interior and ran wire for him.  Surefly is easy if you follow the directions.  Setting timing is important to get right, but it’s not rocket science.  The instructions aren’t bad.  I’ve been really happy with mine, but it’s on a 14v system.  I’d wait for the improved version for a 28v.

in my opinion, no need to go to a special shop for the install.

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1 hour ago, MisfitSELF said:

My stock RPM gage gets it's signals from the P-leads, wired to the ignition switch then to a couple of resistors.  So how do I get "left and right" RPM or do "mag/SIM checks" then?

Before I installed Surefly, I already had EI CGR30P Engine monitor installed and connected to L&R P-Lead. Both connections had a resistor installed ( not sure about the value but it's in the manual). IIRC, Surefly specified a different value of the resistor in their IM which I installed to the wire in lieu of original EI's resistor. Quick search in their IM or a call would give you the value. 

It's a simple install but be aware Surefly is slightly bigger size then my old Slick magneto so there's less clearance during the installation. 

 

Good luck.

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the tach/RPM issue is totally dependent on the tach model - even the R1 and MVP50 both from EI are different.
most are solved with different or no isolators but a Horizon for example needs an additional help that Surefly sells.

the new 24 volt 4 cyl units are shipping but not the 6 cyl units still expected next month.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I just had my regular mechanic do mine. He read the directions and had it done pretty quickly.  I removed the interior and ran wire for him.  Surefly is easy if you follow the directions.  Setting timing is important to get right, but it’s not rocket science.  The instructions aren’t bad.  I’ve been really happy with mine, but it’s on a 14v system.  I’d wait for the improved version for a 28v.

in my opinion, no need to go to a special shop for the install.

Did you run the +12V all the way from the battery in the "avionics bay" behind the baggage compartment?  That actually seems to me to be the hardest part.

Edited by MisfitSELF
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1 hour ago, MisfitSELF said:

Did you run the +12V all the way from the battery in the "avionics bay" behind the baggage compartment?  That actually seems to me to be the hardest part.

Yes.  We did it from the hot side of the master solenoid (right next to the battery) which is allowed.  Yes, that was the hardest part.  Not running the wire, but taking out and replacing the interior.

Edited by Ragsf15e
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Also, make sure that the fuse goes at the aft end to protect the wire. Some drawings in the Surefly documentation make it appear it should do near the SIM. Also, the fuse holder should be installed so that the barrel end (not the cap end) is nearest the battery to make it less likely that it will short out when taken apart to replace the fuse.

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If putting fuses back near the battery seems like a strange idea…

The Long Bodies have sprouted a CB panel back there for a host of similar protection…

There probably isn’t a more important wire to protect than the one powering the ignition system… :)

So… pick a good wire, and don’t run it where it will get a random screw poked into it… (O2 system challenge…)

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

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11 hours ago, PT20J said:

Also, make sure that the fuse goes at the aft end to protect the wire. Some drawings in the Surefly documentation make it appear it should do near the SIM. Also, the fuse holder should be installed so that the barrel end (not the cap end) is nearest the battery to make it less likely that it will short out when taken apart to replace the fuse.

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This is awesome input.

Hee hee, I was right seat of a V-tail that had an electical fire under the glare shield.  The owner, unbeknown to him, had a barrel fuse to simply tied from +12V to ground with a fuse that understandably kept blowing (previous own had just left the blown fuse in).  The current owner didn't know what the fuse and wire was for and took out the fuse, thinking that this was safer than having the fuse constantly burning out.  Apparently, I moved it just right when I plugged in my headsets and the wire on either end of the empty barrel fuse came together...

After the fact we speculated that sometime in the past, that wire was used for something that was removed.  But instead of removing the wire, some idiot just tied it to ground.  The aftermath was that he rewired his whole electrical system.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Great insight Misftiself!

Some fuse holders without a fuse in them have nothing to keep the wire at one end from moving towards the other end…

There can be a spring in there that tries to close the gap…. The only thing that keeps disaster from occurring is the dead fuse left in the middle…

Yikes!

Thanks for sharing that experience…

Best regards,

-a-

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After my lycoming EIS (rebranded surefly) in a 28v airplane, that ultimately had to come out (after 3 attempts from lycoming to the tune of  about 5k after labor, still not currently reimbursed from them) I ended up with a surefly.  For you 28v guys, I wouldn’t be the guinea pig on that.  I have the power conditioner, and it is fine.  Plenty of room to install it in the J.  Also, I find the electronic mag to have more noise slightly in the radios. The power condition did a good job eliminating that.  I made the mistake of pulling non shielded wire first, and had to re do it with shielded.  

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9 hours ago, bmcconnaha said:

After my lycoming EIS (rebranded surefly) in a 28v airplane, that ultimately had to come out (after 3 attempts from lycoming to the tune of  about 5k after labor, still not currently reimbursed from them) I ended up with a surefly.  For you 28v guys, I wouldn’t be the guinea pig on that.  I have the power conditioner, and it is fine.  Plenty of room to install it in the J.  Also, I find the electronic mag to have more noise slightly in the radios. The power condition did a good job eliminating that.  I made the mistake of pulling non shielded wire first, and had to re do it with shielded.  

Surefly has been shipping the new version 4 cyl units with power regulation built-in and may be shipping the 6 cyl version too or getting very close to it. With the newer version the 28V system installs should be as easy as the 14V system (except for any required electronic tach interface changes if applicable).

Surefly supplies the shielded power wire and will give you a longer run to pull it from a rear Mooney battery when you ask them for it. 

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6 hours ago, kortopates said:

Surefly has been shipping the new version 4 cyl units with power regulation built-in and may be shipping the 6 cyl version too or getting very close to it. With the newer version the 28V system installs should be as easy as the 14V system (except for any required electronic tach interface changes if applicable).

Surefly supplies the shielded power wire and will give you a longer run to pull it from a rear Mooney battery when you ask them for it. 

While I agree on the easy install on the built in power conditioner, I would want to have a conversation with them what was changed on the new surefly unit vs the old. After I installed the first lycoming EIS and suffered from occasional rough running, they said I had an original eis, that didn’t work well with 28v.  They shipped me a new one, and Cyl 3 was intermittently firing out of the box.  Lycoming themselves asked me to go buy a surefly and install their external power conditioner.  So far, it’s been perfect.  Minus the fact lycoming still has thousands of dollars of mine in not yet reimbursed warranty claims.  

Edited by bmcconnaha
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