Minnesota Crash

[Davidv]

Just seeing this come through - does anyone know any more? They haven’t released the tail number yet in this story:

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/plane-crashes-near-downtown-victoria-in-the-west-metro
 

[carusoam]

That doesn’t sound very good… high rate of descent…. M20M.  Resulting in an unoccupied house fire…

Letting @mike_elliott be aware…

Best regards,

-a-

 

The house mentioned here… stock photo errantly shows an M20S…

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/mndot-reports-air-crash-closes-both-directions-of-mn-5-in-victoria/89-9057a9e5-3c44-44c5-9a1c-763233149d41

[DCarlton]

1 minute ago, carusoam said:

That doesn’t sound very good… high rate of descent…. M20M.

Letting @mike_elliott be aware…

Best regards,

-a-

I've said this before, but I've only been on MS a few months and I'm rather surprised at the number of mishaps and accidents.  It's not reassuring.  Is this typical?  Does anyone keep a data base of annual aviation accidents by month that's searchable by aircraft make / model?  I realize many are caused unfortunately by pilot error.  

[carusoam]

4 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

I've said this before, but I've only been on MS a few months and I'm rather surprised at the number of mishaps and accidents.  It's not reassuring.  Is this typical?  Does anyone keep a data base of annual aviation accidents by month that's searchable by aircraft make / model?  I realize many are caused unfortunately by pilot error.  

Not very common at all…

But, on MS… you will see everything that happens in the Mooney world.  Including thousands of miles away in places you may never even heard of…

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

A friend shared just a screen shot from somewhere that indicated the plane crashed into a house causing a 2 alarm house fire.

 

[DCarlton]

1 minute ago, carusoam said:

Not very common at all…

But, on MS… you will see everything that happens in the Mooney world.  Including thousands of miles away in places you may never even heard of…

Best regards,

-a-

Anybody keeping a list or a data base?  We had the one in NORCAL that precipitated so much debate a month or so ago.  

[kortopates]

Just now, DCarlton said:

Anybody keeping a list or a data base?  We had the one in NORCAL that precipitated so much debate a month or so ago.  

Lots of databases, but I only follow the FAA and NTSB. Monday this should make it into the FAA Preliminary Accident and Incident Daily report which I follow daily. WIthin 10-14 days we should see a Preliminary Accident report on the NTSB but it will take about 18 months before we ever see the final accident report with attributed causes. Sometimes, the preliminary report will tell us enough details to know 90 % of what happened. But the frustrating thing for many of us, is that the accident reports never tell us why it happened. i.e. what the pilot was thinking.

[Ragsf15e]

28 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Anybody keeping a list or a data base?  We had the one in NORCAL that precipitated so much debate a month or so ago.  

The ntsb list is searchable and can be sorted by date, type and many other factors.  I’ve read all the F model ones, most of the E/J as well.  It’s a lot.  It’s a weird feeling to read them and I’m not convinced it’s that helpful.  Most of them, you’ll say, “oh, I wouldn’t do that.”  Some don’t have a rhyme or reason which is scary because you can’t say “oh, I wouldn’t do that…”.  Maybe it’s worth a read because it’s pretty tough to invent a new way to crash an airplane, but remember, it’s not impossible.

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/index.aspx

[hammdo]

There were storms in the area around that time also... decending 9600 FPM does not sound good...

-Don

[jlunseth]

Yes there were storms here today, but the Tstorm activity was this morning, mostly done by 10:30 or so, at least on the ground. However, it was IFR and LIFR all day with rain off and on, I looked at ceilings in that vicinity this a.m. and they were generally under 800 feet and as low as 100 some places. If someone lost control in IMC they would not have had much time to correct once they broke out. We have also had heavy smoke the last few days, yesterday was clear except for the smoke that reduced flight visibility to 6 miles or less. I went up to fly VFR yesterday and came right back, the smoke was just too thick in the single-digit thousands altitude. 

I just walked that street last weekend. Ovation owner is reportedly from Omaha.

The report is multiple fatalities and no survivors, I assume that is the people in the aircraft, I don’t know about the home dwellers.

One witness says the plane was spiraling before it struck the ground. 

Flightaware shows one Mooney departing Alexandria MN KAXN at 4:56 PM, destined for FCM but the flight track ends short of the destination. The aircraft type was an Ovation but the filed aircraft type was M20T, not M20P. Owner reported as a physician from Omaha. If this is the accident flight,the flightaware track shows a reasonable flight profile down to 2,900. Last reported airspeed was 104 kts. The eastbound approaches into the two RWY10 parallels at FCM start in the area of the crash at about 2,700 or 2,800, which is close to the last reported altitude on flightaware (2900). Again, on the assumption this is the accident flight, things must have happened quickly at that altitude. 

PS that is the aircraft, N9156Z. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/266513 . A Bravo.

[carusoam]

Likely flight in question… (not confirmable by me)

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N9156Z

Best regards,

-a-

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

It’s a weird feeling to read them and I’m not convinced it’s that helpful.  Most of them, you’ll say, “oh, I wouldn’t do that.”

@Ragsf15e

Just the way I feel. I started reading accident reports in Flying magazine back in 1972 (when I was in junior high!).  At some point you realize it's 'rinse wash and repeat'.  You wonder how in the world the guy did "that"...but, the takeaway for me (and why I still read some reports) is that yeah, "I could do that" even if I don't think I could.  Not all of these accident pilots were idiots; I'm sure they never thought themselves capable of the mistake they made.

I try to constantly remind myself that you just can't lose focus...EVER!  I think a lot of accidents result from complacency (lack of focus). The dumb mistakes I've made have been the result of not paying attention.

[Will.iam]

You are always paying. If not attention, then price, or life. 

[jlunseth]

The course near the Twin Cities looks like a vectors to final to either the ILS 10R although it could possibly be a VTF to one of the two RNAVs to either 10R or L. It appears from the very end of the course that the aircraft had intercepted the final approach course around Lake Waconia and was inbound. There is a slight deviation left of course immediately before the flightaware track prematurely ends, pretty much exactly where the accident site is, south of Lake Auburn or Stieger Lake, right in Victoria. It appears the aircraft was correcting back to the final approach course. I don’t see a 9600 FPM descent speed though, the last descent speeds in flightaware are in the hundreds of fpm. 

It was a well equipped aircraft according to aircraft.com. 530W/430W and KFC150 unless further updated. That system should have been able to fly the aircraft right down to the runway on autopilot.

[ragedracer1977]

I guess there's video of the crash, I haven't seen it, but here's some screen capture.

Is the left wing broken????

 

[jlunseth]

It does look like at least the left wing is folded completely vertical and possibly the right wing. Need to look at both photos to see it.

I looked at NEXRAD at about 8 pm. There was a small cell that had moved through the south metro, high 30 thousands, relatively small in diameter. It was well east of the metro by the time I looked and should have crossed south of the accident site, but it might have crossed there. ATC and/or tower would have warned about it if it was sitting on the final approach course if they followed their normal practice in this area. Maybe someone could find the tower or approach control tapes. Tower is 119.15 and approach is 134.7 in that area.

PS I found the video. Both wings are definitely folded in the air. 

 

[Davidv]

11 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

It does look like at least the left wing is folded completely vertical and possibly the right wing. Need to look at both photos to see it.

I looked at NEXRAD at about 8 pm. There was a small cell that had moved through the south metro, high 30 thousands, relatively small in diameter. It was well east of the metro by the time I looked and should have crossed south of the accident site, but it might have crossed there. ATC and/or tower would have warned about it if it was sitting on the final approach course if they followed their normal practice in this area. Maybe someone could find the tower or approach control tapes. Tower is 119.15 and approach is 134.7 in that area.

Wow, it would take a lot of force to bend the wings vertical like that.  I know they couldn’t get the spar to break in tests at Mooney.  If I recall what I was told, the cage came disconnected from the spar rather than the spar snapping.

[Will.iam]

Could corrosion cause the wing spar to collapse? 

[kortopates]

There are actually 2 threads on this in Safety and Accident Discussion.

That came a few hours after this one.


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[DJE22]

6 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

There are actually 2 threads on this in Safety and Accident Discussion.

N9156Z

[kortopates]

Of course it is, but one thread is sufficient and Craig can move it to the proper forum - as he has done many times. ( I would have referred to him with his username if I could in Tapatalk)


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[carusoam]

Take time…

Stay focused…

Be kind…

This is a real tragedy…

With real loss of life…

 

There will be plenty of time to determine what thread belongs where… and how to get it moved….

Prayers for our lost Mooney wingman…

Best regards,

-a-

[Davidv]

I just came across this, someone got the ATC audio.  It's impossible to draw any conclusions other than something may have been distracting the pilot (mechanical, weather, or otherwise) which made him miss several radio calls immediately after checking in.  Then he responds to the low altitude alert with a "roger"... I'm assuming the audio playback is real time and not edited down, but could be wrong.

 

[carusoam]

Flight track here seems to match date and time…

With the still photo taken from the video, posted above… (I think)

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N9156Z/history/20210807/2151Z/KAXN/KFCM/tracklog

Last data point doesn’t show anything but ordinary flight regimes…

There isn’t anything showing the high descent rate reported elsewhere…

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Last page of the collected flight data…

One piece of speed information at the end is closer to stall speed, but is GPS speed not airspeed…

Some fast directional changes occurring in the final seconds but not giant….

-a-