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Upgrade from GNS to IFD


elimansour

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Hello Mooneyspace Thinktank!! 

My Allegro has GNS530W/430W that works well with the installed Aspen Pro Max, MX20, and KFC 150.  I have had no issues with the GNS units and they are solid and reliable for what they can do - but I have been very intrigued by the user interface, functionality, connectivity, and capabilities of the IFD units and the easy upgrade path as compared to other modern navigators.  I have also looked at the GTN series of navigators but getting those will involve significantly more $ outlay for labor and require reconfiguring the panel.  I have spoken to my avionics shop and they have let me know that the IFD will play nice with the Aspen, MX20 and KFC 150 but not having used one myself (other than at Oshkosh or the iOS sim) I wanted to how fellow Mooneyspacers have liked these units.  I have read the prior threads here about the IFDs but would appreciate getting some current PIREPS from those that have had the IFD units installed for a while.  Any negative experiences, regrets or cautionary tales?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

 

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I have an IFD540 that's been installed for about three years.   I love it.   I flew GNS430s in rental airplanes previously, and fly with a buddy that has a Garmin GTN.   They're all different and have their pluses and minuses, but I really do like the IFD.   The user interface is pretty intuitive and the mix of buttons and touch screen is awesome.   If you integrate it with the Aspen and an engine monitor (or someplace to get OAT), it'll do a lot of handy computations like expected fuel remaining at destinations, TAS, ETA, density altitude, etc., etc.    I've been playing with it for three years and am still learning handy stuff that it'll do for me.   No regrets.  ;)

The slide-in installation is also great.   I think it may be useful to record as much of the current GNS configuration settings as possible in order to minimize setup pain with the IFD.

 

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There must be dozens of MS users that have upgraded from the older Big G avionics…. With a direct replacement with an IFD…

Some people may be a little surprised because a wire or two needed to be added to get the new WAAS functionality… 

If they weren’t expecting to run new antenna wires…. That is a bit of a cost going through the cabin…

The update in the decade newer technology is greatly appreciated…  faster processor, bigger memory, as expected…

Overall the small things that make the system easier to use…. Are real, not just added fluff….

Avidyne is a great competitor to help keep Big G honest…

Often, you will see MSers selecting the best of non Big G avionics and doing the integration of everything…

Avidyne, PSEngineering, Electronics International, Aspen….

 

PP thoughts only, not an avionics guru…

Best regards,

-a-

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Every one I know who has one loves it. The one thing to be aware of is that the flow - the way you get to certain functions and the way they work - can be different than you are used to. That means it is best to do some type of transition training. The form it takes - CFI who knows it, formal course, self-taught through book, manuals, and videos - depends on you but it it should be something where you affirmatively think of it as training.

I'm doing general recurrent instrument training and will be doing his transition training with a pilot/mechanic who just bought an IFD to replace his 430. Looking forward to it.
 

 

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I honestly hate the ifd system. The buttons feel cheaply made ( like they will tear with a finger nail). The controls dont feel intuitive. Their touchscreen is kinda wonky. I would hit something and it would select something i didnt hit, ( this happened on the show floor model and in my friends plane). And the graphics/ what is displayed on the screen itself looks cheap, though that is extremely minor. I love that they are a slide in replacement...for the most part, you still might have to do wiring. I do like that you have the option for both touchscreen and knobs since you really need to use the knobs on the device. Lastly, i LOVE that you have flightplan transfer (Bluetooth) built right into the unit!! Unlike the 750 where you have to buy the 510 to have it.

I went with the 750 in my Mooney. It is easier to use, better quality, oh and the ADSB weather is a LIFE SAVER. If you have ADSB-in, the weather capabilities on the GTN-750 is the best. You get so much knowledge at your fingertips. Ill see if i can get a picture of it later.

 

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Hello Elimansour, You are asking good questions and doing due diligence on deciding how best to upgrade your panel. I have another positive pilot report for the IFD. I Have had mine for 3 yrs and love it. I instruct and fly in TAA with GTN, GNS and IFD boxes and the IFD is a true flight management system.  Main consideration is if you are using or planning on a GFC500 AP, it does not provide VNAV or smart glide functions for Garmin’s AP.  Otherwise, intuitive interface and good support in my experience. Good luck on your upgrade journey.

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3 hours ago, Patrick Horan said:

I went with the 750 in my Mooney. It is easier to use, better quality, oh and the ADSB weather is a LIFE SAVER. If you have ADSB-in, the weather capabilities on the GTN-750 is the best. You get so much knowledge at your fingertips. Ill see if i can get a picture of it later

@Patrick HoranThank you for the feedback.  I was not aware of a difference in how the units handled ADSB weather.  I will look into it.  Any specific big gotchas with the IFD not having important ADSB features?  Thanks again!

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I'm another lover of the IFDs, I've had a 440 for almost 6 years I think--got it within a few months of certification. I think it's way better than the GNS's and I found it very easy to transition to the IFD. I read the pilot guide and played with the simulator for a bit and had no trouble. I've never used a GTN so I can't compare.

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18 hours ago, elimansour said:

Hello Mooneyspace Thinktank!! 

My Allegro has GNS530W/430W that works well with the installed Aspen Pro Max, MX20, and KFC 150.  I have had no issues with the GNS units and they are solid and reliable for what they can do - but I have been very intrigued by the user interface, functionality, connectivity, and capabilities of the IFD units and the easy upgrade path as compared to other modern navigators.  I have also looked at the GTN series of navigators but getting those will involve significantly more $ outlay for labor and require reconfiguring the panel.  I have spoken to my avionics shop and they have let me know that the IFD will play nice with the Aspen, MX20 and KFC 150 but not having used one myself (other than at Oshkosh or the iOS sim) I wanted to how fellow Mooneyspacers have liked these units.  I have read the prior threads here about the IFDs but would appreciate getting some current PIREPS from those that have had the IFD units installed for a while.  Any negative experiences, regrets or cautionary tales?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

 

I have a similar setup after swapping out my GNS: PFD Max / IFD440 / KFC200.  As I’m also in San Diego drop me a message if you want to swing by my hangar and play with the features.  I don’t have weather yet but I have traffic from TAS which displays on the IFD and Aspen.  Check the circuit breaker for your GNS: mine was 5amps and the IFD needs at least 7.5amps and it was several hours labor to replace that CB.  The coax needs to be of a certain length and if you don’t need to replace the antenna it’s just a slide-in replacement.  The box even comes with a logbook entry that the owner / operator can sign.  I got mine mine from Chase / Avionics Source — very highly recommend.

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@BaldEagleThanks for the great reply.  I've been playing with the iOS sim but may definitely take you up on the offer to look at the actual unit in a Mooney/ similar configuration.  For the no weather - is that due to having a GDL-88 or only ADSB-out on another box?  I have a GTX345 and have not heard of ADSB connectivity issues with the IFD and that unit.  I think I also have a single 5amp CB for GPS on my panel...Oddly I have 2 10amp CBs labeled as COM1 and COM2/NAV2 but changing the CB is no issue.  Both my GNS units are WAAS so I don't think I'll need to upgrade antenna.  I believe the avionics tech may only need to add a couple of wires to the audio panel and between the 2 units...Will PM you separately to set up a time to visit with you. Thank you!

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+1 for Chase… if you are buying on the open market…. Plenty of good reviews around here…

Another interesting point regarding Avidyne…

During their development… they pre-sold many units… with an expected delivery date… about a year out….

Then…. We found out they under promised, and then over delivered… :)

Kind of surprising in the avionics business…

PP thoughts only… not an avionics sales guy.

Best regards,

-a-

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55 minutes ago, elimansour said:

@BaldEagleThanks for the great reply.  I've been playing with the iOS sim but may definitely take you up on the offer to look at the actual unit in a Mooney/ similar configuration.  For the no weather - is that due to having a GDL-88 or only ADSB-out on another box?  I have a GTX345 and have not heard of ADSB connectivity issues with the IFD and that unit.  I think I also have a single 5amp CB for GPS on my panel...Oddly I have 2 10amp CBs labeled as COM1 and COM2/NAV2 but changing the CB is no issue.  Both my GNS units are WAAS so I don't think I'll need to upgrade antenna.  I believe the avionics tech may only need to add a couple of wires to the audio panel and between the 2 units...Will PM you separately to set up a time to visit with you. Thank you!

The only reason I don’t have weather on the IFD is that the previous owner installed a GTX335 so I have ADSB-out only.  The Avidyne TAS600 works great for traffic and I’ve been using a home built Stratux with an iPad for weather so I’ve not been in any rush to replace the GTX335 for a 345.

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Going against the recommendations of others I’d just swap out the 530w for the 540. You’ve had the GNS units for awhile so it shouldn’t be hard to deal with different interfaces. Keep for 430 going as a backup as the used values have dropped a good bit making the upgrade more expensive. 

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5 hours ago, elimansour said:

@Patrick HoranThank you for the feedback.  I was not aware of a difference in how the units handled ADSB weather.  I will look into it.  Any specific big gotchas with the IFD not having important ADSB features?  Thanks again!

Idf has adsb-in weather capabilities. Im not sure how good it is, but when i get to my plane later today, ill drop a photo of what type of information I get. The IFD could have the same information, i don't know about that.

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47 minutes ago, Patrick Horan said:

Idf has adsb-in weather capabilities. Im not sure how good it is, but when i get to my plane later today, ill drop a photo of what type of information I get. The IFD could have the same information, i don't know about that.

Yes, the IFD overlays weather on the display and makes metars available, etc., just like on an EFB.    The traffic displays are quite good as well.

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Be careful when selecting an ADS-B source. The GTX 345 will export to all the devices you are discussing but will not support all in parallel. You will have to pick between the Aspen/IFD vs the MX 20. If you go big G you can get it on the MX20 and the GNS or GTN instead. Make sure you discuss the details with your installer as you make your selection. 

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4 hours ago, Warren said:

The GTX 345 will export to all the devices you are discussing but will not support all in parallel. You will have to pick between the Aspen/IFD vs the MX 20. If you go big G you can get it on the MX20 and the GNS or GTN instead. Make sure you discuss the details with your installer as you make your selection. 

@WarrenI went through that went I added the Aspen to the panel.  I lost the ADSB feed to the MX20 as they used it with the Aspen.  I am not sure I understand your comment.  Are you saying that if I went with a GTN I would be able to retain the ADSB on Aspen and GTN and add back to MX20 or would it be the same as I currently have?

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19 hours ago, EricJ said:

Yes, the IFD overlays weather on the display and makes metars available, etc., just like on an EFB.    The traffic displays are quite good as well.

That's good to hear.  I could not figure out what weather products are displayed on the IFD from playing with the iOS Sim.  From what I have seen, it looks like the IFD displays some but not all of the available ADSB weather info.  Still trying to run that down.  

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5 hours ago, elimansour said:

@WarrenI went through that went I added the Aspen to the panel.  I lost the ADSB feed to the MX20 as they used it with the Aspen.  I am not sure I understand your comment.  Are you saying that if I went with a GTN I would be able to retain the ADSB on Aspen and GTN and add back to MX20 or would it be the same as I currently have?

@elimansourThe IFD and the Aspen use the same communication format so both can be fed from the GTX345.  The MX20 requires a different format and there is only one output available.  The GTN navigators use the HSDB protocol and can be in parallel with the other devices on the legacy communication formats.  If you went with a GTN, you would get weather and traffic on the GTN plus MX20 or GTN plus Aspen - you would still have to choose Aspen or MX20.

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