Htmlkid Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 (edited) I just had electrical issues and found out that it was possibly caused by a recent lightening strike close to my plane. The total cost of repair is going to be $2-$3k. My question is it worth making the claim knowing rates are out of control these days. My current rate for $80k in Hull coverage is only $2k and I’m afraid of a crazy increase after the claim. Has anyone had experience with claims and rate increases after the claim? Edited August 3, 2021 by Htmlkid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpilot Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 That seems like a pretty small $ amount to file a claim. I'd probably pay out of pocket to avoid the hassle of filing, but I am fairly ignorant on aviation claims. Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Avalle Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 That seems like a pretty small $ amount to file a claim. I'd probably pay out of pocket to avoid the hassle of filing, but I am fairly ignorant on aviation claims. Sent from my Pixel 4a using TapatalkGiven the current context I would pay it myself.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 Good question for @Parker_Woodruff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaynePierce Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 Having claimed on a 3,000 elevator rash in the last few years, I would pay out of pocket instead of involving the Insurance company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 It depends on which insurance company you're with and if your broker expects you to be with them for the long term (I can give you some advice on that with further details). In fact, one carrier doesn't take claims into account if they're under $10,000. In 80% of cases, I would say you'll end up ahead by filing this one. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 This summer has been the summer of dealing with damaged airplanes while they're parked. In two cases, it has made the most sense to file the claim as the policy holder and let the insurance carrier subrogate. In one case, it appears going after the aircraft owner's insurance directly is making the most sense. So far, with some proactive efforts such as calling the underwriters before they just slap a rate increase, we have been successful in limiting or completely avoiding rate increases. We had a case recently where an adjuster knew they had a good chance at subrogating and so, on behalf of the claimant, did us a favor and called the underwriter whom I was working with to get him favorable rates on his replacement aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will.iam Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 Ok i need to go back to english class or insurance school. What does subrogate mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rwsavory Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 21 minutes ago, Will.iam said: Ok i need to go back to english class or insurance school. What does subrogate mean? An insurance company pays the policyholder’s claim and then pursues reimbursement from a third party. The company is “subrogated” to the rights of the policyholder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriscalandro Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 What are the electrical issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htmlkid Posted August 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 2 hours ago, chriscalandro said: What are the electrical issues? My master switch wouldn’t shut down the electrical system. Initially the mechanic thought it was the master switch which he replaced and while replacing it they were faced with the same issue. They then remembered that 2 weeks ago there was a lightning strike close to the taxi way in front of the hangar he believes that the plane may have gotten some of that strike. He had his tech try to charge the battery while he was putting the switch in and the charger lead got super-hot and started burning, He tried to put the battery on the capacitance check machine and again it got super-hot as well, which leads him to believe that the battery shorted itself out internally somehow, He called Lasar and after speaking to their tech rep, He explained the whole situation to him and we came to the conclusion that a charge may have come into the plane and ran current backwards which went through the battery and the relay, the relay has a coil in it and when the master is turned on the coil energizes and closes the switch and this allows the current to go up to the buss under the instrument panel, the magnetic field in the relay is compromised, thus therelay is turning itself on and off by itself with the master off, so they ordered a new battery and relay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will.iam Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 Wow that is some good troubleshooting right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Somehow current would have to flow through the electrical system to ground. The tires are pretty good insulators. If it was in a metal hangar, the building would provide a Faraday shield around the airplane. Skip 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 I’m full of goofy stories…. My lightning strike story… Lightning hit a tree 50’ from my house… All of our power and phone lines are subterranean… We lost a couple of telephones, answering machine, and a modem inside a computer… No obvious outside damage… small dark spots where the elevated current ran through each device…. None were enough value to bother a fix… The tree sustained a scar that it couldn’t survive with… Now… for Mooney lightning stories… because we have one around here somewhere…. If your plane was parked outside… and it got hit by lightning… be on the look out for exit hole welding marks… Somebody had such a tiny exit hole on the bottom side of their plane…. Probably because the tires make such a great resistor… So…. Be sure of the entire list of damage… if the errant current made it past a relay into the battery… how many other places could it have traveled the same way… Get out the wiring diagram… and see what other wires were easy for electricity to flow through… damaged parts, popped circuit breakers, and blown fuses would be signs that there may be more damage hiding… Lightning isn’t usually very gentle…. But, a strike 50’ away can have you looking at every phone, modem and answering machine you own…. Good luck getting everything found… and straightened out… PP thoughts only, not a mechanic… Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriscalandro Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Htmlkid said: My master switch wouldn’t shut down the electrical system. Initially the mechanic thought it was the master switch which he replaced and while replacing it they were faced with the same issue. They then remembered that 2 weeks ago there was a lightning strike close to the taxi way in front of the hangar he believes that the plane may have gotten some of that strike. He had his tech try to charge the battery while he was putting the switch in and the charger lead got super-hot and started burning, He tried to put the battery on the capacitance check machine and again it got super-hot as well, which leads him to believe that the battery shorted itself out internally somehow, He called Lasar and after speaking to their tech rep, He explained the whole situation to him and we came to the conclusion that a charge may have come into the plane and ran current backwards which went through the battery and the relay, the relay has a coil in it and when the master is turned on the coil energizes and closes the switch and this allows the current to go up to the buss under the instrument panel, the magnetic field in the relay is compromised, thus therelay is turning itself on and off by itself with the master off, so they ordered a new battery and relay. I can believe that story. The master solenoid has a reverse protection diode but I’m sure it won’t survive lightning. a battery and a solenoid is probably around 800ish though. did the lightning strike nearby or did it strike the airplane, nearby and this is a more difficult to believe story, direct impact or within let’s say…. 5 feet, it makes logical sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 2 hours ago, PT20J said: That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Somehow current would have to flow through the electrical system to ground. The tires are pretty good insulators. If it was in a metal hangar, the building would provide a Faraday shield around the airplane. Skip I'm not so quick to discount the damage a nearby strike could induce. Lightning strikes can reach 100,000 amps (25,000 to 40,000 is common) and 300 million volts. The magnetic induction from such an enormous current shouldn't be underestimated. It does seem like a closed all-metal hangar would provide decent protection, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 The diode is a flyback diode to snub the voltage spike when the relay coil is suddenly de-energized and it’s magnetic field collapses. Failure would not affect the relay operation. To get the battery relay to energize, you need the battery to supply voltage to the coil and the other side of the coil to have a path to ground — normally through the master switch. But, any short in the wire would do it. Skip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, MikeOH said: I'm not so quick to discount the damage a nearby strike could induce. Lightning strikes can reach 100,000 amps (25,000 to 40,000 is common) and 300 million volts. The magnetic induction from such an enormous current shouldn't be underestimated. It does seem like a closed all-metal hangar would provide decent protection, however. Anything is possible. But a little knowledgeable testing and troubleshooting seems preferable to replacing expensive components until the problem goes away. This is a pretty basic electric circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 1 minute ago, PT20J said: Anything is possible. But a little knowledgeable testing and troubleshooting seems preferable to replacing expensive components until the problem goes away. This is a pretty basic electric circuit. 100% agree. I really hate shotgunning electrical problems! If a strike really took out that relay, I'd be VERY concerned about avionics damage, however. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 According to All About Lightning rubber tires cannot suppress as the potential involved in a lightning strike is too high and rubber tires have sufficient carbon within. If rubber tires were sufficient, lineman working in bucket lift trucks would have one less thing to worry about, but they do. My hangar has a pretty good lightning conductors, but a recent hit blew out a power tool charger that was not even plugged in but was close to the wall. Even the housing was showed melting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 According to All About Lightning rubber tires cannot suppress as the potential involved in a lightning strike is too high and rubber tires have sufficient carbon within.Just to be clear, lightning can jump from clouds thousands of feet in the air, it can certainly jump 1’ from the vehicle frame to ground no matter what’s resistance of the tires . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 Or the relay just went bad, which they sometimes do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 In addition to the low claim value, it may be an uphill battle proving you actually have a claim. I'd probably just pay to fix it and move on. Take it as a lesson to plan ahead next time and not park next to the lightening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htmlkid Posted August 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2021 So for those of you following this we finally figured out what happened. After replacing the master switch, the battery solenoid and the battery we still had the same issue. Come to find out, with the help of an avionics guy tracing wires, that I recently had the interior done and one of the screws for the manual gear crank cover went though a wire and was shorting the system. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 Yikes! Glad that is in the known category now… Sort of an internal lightning… Thanks for the follow-up HTML! Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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