Thinking about G3X with GFC500, looking for a shop

[MooneyNoob]

Hi folks,

I'm looking at a plane that has great some GPS tech but the rest of the panel is old.  The plane has steam gauges but the autopilot is apparently good (King KFC 200 with flight director, glide slope coupling, etc.).    I'm thinkin about MAYBE ripping all that out and replacing with dual PFD/MFD G3X + GFC500 for the safety features, but I'm wondering if that can be done for about $35K or less? 

- Autopilot: Would I be crazy to rip out a perfectly good KFC 200?   (As a low-time pilot, I am very tempted by the envelope protection and wing leveling features of the GFC 500)

- I'd be putting in the G3Xs to work with the GFC.  If I keep the KFC 200, should I go for Dynon Skyview instead?     Dual Skyview is about $25K installed (engine probes and all), rumor has it...can anyone validate that?

- Is there an avionics shop without a year-long wait these days that you would recommend for the work?

Thanks for any words of wisdom!

[ArtVandelay]

It’s a 5 month wait just for the hardware, so plan accordingly.

[carusoam]

For round numbers… 

Find the Want Ad Press of the aviation world… AKA Trade-a-plane…

They always have advertised package deals with dreamy pricing…

Please note… when discussing dollar amounts in public forums… the term AMU gets used… 35AMU, everyone here knows what you are discussing…

 

Realism sets in… a good nav radio can cost 20AMU to buy and get installed…

Don’t plan on buying a plane and tearing things out until you have a year of ownership experience…

Modern panels can easily get to 100AMUs…

 

Look closely around here… there are many MSers on the same path…

Everyone handles things slightly differently depending on their skill sets…

 

We have at least four Dynon users around here… big screens, great data… no AP for Mooney yet…

We have many more Garmin users…

We have plenty of build the system you want, taking the best from all manufacturers as well…

Start working your spreadsheets…  

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

GFC 500 (without yaw damper) $9,895

G3X with EIS $12,895

G5 Standby $2,345

New panel fabrication $2000

Figure 1/2 the hardware cost for installation = $14,000

So a reasonable ball park would be $41K installed. You could save some by not including EIS if you already have an engine monitor.

Skip

 

[MooneyNoob]

@PT20J That's great detail, thanks.  Were have you seen hose kinds of metrics on the labor?  Any particular shop you'd recommend?

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, MooneyNoob said:

@PT20J That's great detail, thanks.  Were have you seen hose kinds of metrics on the labor?  Any particular shop you'd recommend?

That's just been my experience. Labor is the biggest variable. Different shops have different rates. Some states charge sales tax on labor. The cheap shops have to cut corners somewhere and those shortcuts come back to bite you later. I've spent three years getting the intermittent problems out of my airplane from installations done by the previous owner. I use Crown Aviation in Everett WA. I know the owner to be an honest businessman and the avionics technician to be a methodical craftsman. Also, it's close to my home base which I think is worth paying the sales tax. If any issues come up, I don't want to have the installer a thousand miles away.

Skip

[Oldguy]

On 7/28/2021 at 2:24 PM, PT20J said:

Also, it's close to my home base which I think is worth paying the sales tax. If any issues come up, I don't want to have the installer a thousand miles away.

There is probably a value to be assigned to this, and I will say whatever value you assign to it, it will be too low. When your plane is AOG at your home drome with an avionics problem and your avionics shop is a flight away - irrespective of the distance - the money you saved having a shop 200 nm away do the install is not worth it.

Quote from a friend of mine named Experience.

[PT20J]

My shop is really busy and is turning away even warranty work on aircraft where they did not do the installation. They tell me they've just had too many bad experiences spending hours to troubleshoot shoddy work - often with little or no documentation - done by the lowest bidder and then having the owner complain about the bill.

Skip

[Mooney Dog]

I thought a lot about upgrades getting my E set up. It really comes down to what you have in the plane and what you want to upgrade/compromise in. There will be some compromise when trying to save money. 

I personally think dual G5s, which go for around 10 grand installed, are a great upgrade if you have a good gps/com set up already. You can also go the GI 275 for ~14 installed. I dont know if the G5 supports the kfc200, but im pretty sure the GI275 would. Having flown a kap200, i can tell you they're lacking in terms of features compared to modern day autopilots, but not enough that i would upgrade if trying to save money. altitude and heading/nav holds are all i really care about. I hand fly everything else anyways, though it would be nice to have an ap that shoots the ils to mins....

I personally went from a 6 pack with VOR/ADF to dual G5s, 375/255a and another standalone VOR. I plan to upgrade to a EIS such as the JPI 800 or CGR30 some point later when i bite the bullet and say the gfc500 was worth the 10grand i was quoted for install, which at that point itll be 2 grand more. 

[V1VRV2]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:49 AM, MooneyNoob said:

Hi folks,

I'm looking at a plane that has great some GPS tech but the rest of the panel is old.  The plane has steam gauges but the autopilot is apparently good (King KFC 200 with flight director, glide slope coupling, etc.).    I'm thinkin about MAYBE ripping all that out and replacing with dual PFD/MFD G3X + GFC500 for the safety features, but I'm wondering if that can be done for about $35K or less? 

- Autopilot: Would I be crazy to rip out a perfectly good KFC 200?   (As a low-time pilot, I am very tempted by the envelope protection and wing leveling features of the GFC 500)

- I'd be putting in the G3Xs to work with the GFC.  If I keep the KFC 200, should I go for Dynon Skyview instead?     Dual Skyview is about $25K installed (engine probes and all), rumor has it...can anyone validate that?

- Is there an avionics shop without a year-long wait these days that you would recommend for the work?

Thanks for any words of wisdom!

GFC500 installed is about 21 AMU without yaw damper. 25 AMU with. Thing about the KFC200 is parts availability is getting thin and parts for servos are expensive. I am giving up a very nice KFC225 for a GFC500. Rebuilding a servo is stupid expensive.

I purchased a used legacy Garmin G600 for 13 AMU. It integrates better with the G600 than the KFC autopilots. For my budget used equipment was the way to go. If there is a problem with the used G600 then Garmin will send you a refurbished unit for $2,600.

[mhrivnak]

Also keep in mind that your KFC 200 in working condition is likely worth several AMU as parts due to how expensive it is to repair them. I replaced my working KAP 150 with the GFC 500 (and G3x touch, etc.) because the old AP was showing signs of its age, I knew expensive repairs would come sooner than later, and I wanted to get the improved performance and features of the GFC 500.

I also wanted to replace the vacuum system with digital components, and determined that the extra cost of Garmin components that can drive a King AP helped justify sticking with either dual G5s or G3x Touch and replacing the AP.

[Baker Avionics]

On 7/28/2021 at 9:15 AM, MooneyNoob said:

@PT20J That's great detail, thanks.  Were have you seen hose kinds of metrics on the labor?  Any particular shop you'd recommend?

where are located