M20J Cowl on E model

[anAscendancy]

I have an M20E and will be putting a J model cowl and front windshield on it.  Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to get this done right?  I have the J cowl with the cowl flaps.  I need the Baffling and airbox along with all parts as it will be relocated along with the oil cooler.  Has anyone already done this and perhaps had any real experiance?  Maybe a link to a previous forum on this subject?

[DaV8or]

There used to be an STC for this, but it's not available right now. My understanding is, you can do this, but it will require a field approval from the local FSDO. I have no personal experience with the conversion, but it's been done many times and I would recommend doing it at MSC that has an agreeable FSDO. Call around to all the usual recommended MSCs (Maxwell, SWTA, Dugosh, Willmar, etc) and get their opinion. They might be able to help you locate the parts you don't have too. It's a pretty big job and I'm told it's not as simple as it would seem on paper.

Good luck and welcome to MooneySpace!

[KSMooniac]

I believe LASAR has a detailed list of parts you'll need to accomplish the swap.  Definitely get your local FSDO on board before starting the project as that will likely be the hardest part of the job.  There are some engine mount differences too IIRC because of the cowl flap linkage differences between the models.

[anAscendancy]

I was wondering if anyone had a detailed list of what was needed for the modification  and or plans that someone may have who may have done this modification already that may help me with the FSDO?  Thanks for bringing the mount issue to my attention.  I was wondering if it was just a bolt on linkage modification or do I need to find a J model engine mount? I will also call lasar and see if they can offer any help.

[MooneyMitch]

Check with Mark Rouch, Top Gun in Stockton, CA.  The "F" n "J" is their Mooney modifed with the J cowl.  I do believe Mark did this mod. himself.

 

 

[DaV8or]

Quote: Mitch

Check with Mark Rouch, Top Gun in Stockton, CA.  The "F" n "J" is their Mooney modifed with the J cowl.  I do believe Mark did this mod. himself.

[georgeb]

You mean like this?  It's not easy...took 8 months, and most of it was looking for parts. This is my '70 'E' to 'J'. Pretty much a short J. Factory parts are no longer available. Especially in the ducting and sheetmetal work for the cooling. Good Luck

[takair]

Nice!  Jorge, did you get it field approved or were you able to find somebody with an STC? 

Also, any performance numbers you are willing to share?  I have heard that an E with 201 mods is faster than a 201.

[mooneym20d]

My E was converted in 1985. We used the original parts from a 1985 J that had corrosion issues. All Baffles, entire cowl and attached components (induction, cowl flaps and rigging, etc..) complete exhaust were used. Basically, we used everything but the engine and mount.

[DaV8or]

To those that have done it- Assuming you have every single peice and part in hand, how many hours would you estimate the conversion takes? Is there any custom fabrication, or modification to the original E/F required?

[DaV8or]

Quote: mooneym20d

My E was converted in 1985. We used the original parts from a 1985 J that had corrosion issues. All Baffles, entire cowl and attached components (induction, cowl flaps and rigging, etc..) complete exhaust were used. Basically, we used everything but the engine and mount.

[anAscendancy]

George you wouldn't happen to have the break down of parts and part numbers?  I have the cowl with the cowl flaps but I know thats only part of the battle.  Neat thing is Airforms.biz makes the complete baffling for 1200.00.  I just need the cowl flap linkage and the induction parts.  I think I'm going to get rid of the ram air induction.  I hear that it doesn't do much with the J cowl.  On my E I get about 1 full inch of manifold pressure when using the ram air induction at altitude.  It really is a kick in the pants for my E.  But again with the J cowl I hear barely a 1/4 inch of manifold pressure.  A guy told me he was using the ram air induction and something got in through the ram air hole and he heard it going through his engine.  What it was could only be speculated but that also could be a concern.

[georgeb]

Quote: takair

Nice!  Jorge, did you get it field approved or were you able to find somebody with an STC? 

Also, any performance numbers you are willing to share?  I have heard that an E with 201 mods is faster than a 201.

[georgeb]

Quote: anAscendancy

George you wouldn't happen to have the break down of parts and part numbers?  I have the cowl with the cowl flaps but I know thats only part of the battle.  Neat thing is Airforms.biz makes the complete baffling for 1200.00.  I just need the cowl flap linkage and the induction parts.  I think I'm going to get rid of the ram air induction.  I hear that it doesn't do much with the J cowl.  On my E I get about 1 full inch of manifold pressure when using the ram air induction at altitude.  It really is a kick in the pants for my E.  But again with the J cowl I hear barely a 1/4 inch of manifold pressure.  A guy told me he was using the ram air induction and something got in through the ram air hole and he heard it going through his engine.  What it was could only be speculated but that also could be a concern.

[anAscendancy]

Jorge do you remember where the stc was from?  I've been looking for such the thing and have been unable.  And if you could find any old info you had on your install that would be a great help also. Thank you everyone for your posts they have been very helpful and I will post some pictures as things progress. If anyone has any idea where I can find the induction parts that would be Great.

[KSMooniac]

I posted in the classifieds as well, but I'll do it here for completeness.  LASAR has a detailed bill of materials for a conversion, but I don't think they have the STC.  They are likely the best chance for finding the parts easily, too.  Field approval is possible if you have a good IA and FSDO.

I removed my ram air system on my J because it does nothing measurable.  Mooney has a SI or SB with instructions on what to do, and you don't need to buy any Mooney-specific parts.  Basically I covered the hole in the induction box, and had the paint shop fiberglass the hole shut on the cowl during repaint.  Removing the actuation cable and sealing the firewall hole was the biggest PITA due to access issues under the panel.

[anAscendancy]

Thanks again everyone on all the great posts!  I talked to Mark at Top Gun and he is all too willing to help me get this thing figured out.  He seems very knowlegeable and he is in the process of doing some research for me from his own conversion.  And I'll have some before and after pics real soon if this goes like I hope it will...

[MooneyMitch]

In a recent interview, we asked Bill Wheat which was his favorite Mooney.  Bill's favorite Mooney is the E model.  He also stated that an E with the J cowl/winshield mod. would be an excellent conversion!  Go for it and keep us posted please !

[KSMooniac]

An E with a full J conversion including 64 gallon tanks and 2740 lb gross weight would be the ultimate 2+2 speedster!  I don't know of any way to get the gross weight up to 2740, though.  It might be theoretically possible if the control surfaces were swapped, but I'm not sure if there are any steel cage or landing gear differences...

[mooneym20d]

Quote: DaV8or

WOW! You did your conversion in '85 and the plane you used as a donor was built new in '85, but it had corrosion issues in one year or less??!

[Mooney65E]

Quote: georgeb

You mean like this?  It's not easy...took 8 months, and most of it was looking for parts. This is my '70 'E' to 'J'. Pretty much a short J. Factory parts are no longer available. Especially in the ducting and sheetmetal work for the cooling. Good Luck

[georgeb]

Quote: Mooney65E

Jorge,

Nice looking cowl on your E. How much is involved with removing the lower cowl on your modified E for oil changes and routine inspections? Is it as easy as removing the old stock side panels?

[DaV8or]

Quote: anAscendancy

Thanks again everyone on all the great posts!  I talked to Mark at Top Gun and he is all too willing to help me get this thing figured out.  He seems very knowlegeable and he is in the process of doing some research for me from his own conversion.  And I'll have some before and after pics real soon if this goes like I hope it will...

[FlyingDude]

Hey guys,

Picking up the topic 12 years later.  Has anyone converted their airbox from an E to J model style?  Not the whole cowl, but just the air intake.  That means, getting rid of the front intake hole, patching it up and removing the ram air.  Were there any power and speed benefits?  My last speed mod reduced fuel burn instead of increasing speed.  Of course it will take a field approval, but I think I can pull it off.  

Thanks...

[KSMooniac]

I'm not 100% sure but I think you would at least need something like the ARI or Sabre cowl mods to enable that, along with the 201 spinner.  The J induction system is more efficient than the E/F, so you'd flow more air all the time, or about what you get with E/F ram air open, but with the J it would be filtered.  Worthwhile upgrade IMO if you can source the parts and complete the conversion without breaking the bank.  I would not expect very noticeable improvements, though, but it will be a little bit better.  A lot of "little bit better" eventually adds up.  (I've been doing that for years!)