Holding a yoke vs. holding a steering wheel

[211º]

After flying, does anyone get in the habit of "just slightly adjusting the steering wheel" and then hands off for a little bit? On a just-slightly buried level, I have to remind myself that I'm on a river of asphalt, not in an ocean of air.

And a corollary: You know how getting one's Instrument Rating makes the person a better pilot... is there a similar analogy between being a pilot and being a better driver (or could they be inversely related?)

(I have plenty of time to think on long cross country trips).

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, 211º said:

 

And a corollary: You know how getting one's Instrument Rating makes the person a better pilot... is there a similar analogy between being a pilot and being a better driver 

30 years ago (holy crap!) when I got my instrument rating I noticed right away that it made me a better driver. More precise speed/lane control, more aware of what was going on around me, and thinking at least one step ahead. 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, 211º said:

After flying, does anyone get in the habit of "just slightly adjusting the steering wheel" and then hands off for a little bit? On a just-slightly buried level, I have to remind myself that I'm on a river of asphalt, not in an ocean of air.

And a corollary: You know how getting one's Instrument Rating makes the person a better pilot... is there a similar analogy between being a pilot and being a better driver (or could they be inversely related?)

 No, I have a hand on the wheel all the time, except when I have both of them there. But I generally keep my left hand on the yoke, but will periodically alternate hands in the wheel. It matters a lot if the car wanders three feet from where it is at any point in time, but none at all if the plane wanders up or down by 100' or more, or even sideways by a quarter mile . . . .

I also agree that being a pilot has made me a more attentive driver, especially to things on the dash in front of me, and for smoothing out acceleration, especially when slowing down / stopping. 

[Unit74]

Not really. My Tesla mitigated my need to actually drive. 

[Hank]

48 minutes ago, Unit74 said:

Not really. My Tesla mitigated my need to actually drive. 

Don't let it turn you in front of a truck . . . Too many dead people who let their car drive while they did other things.

[M20F]

I drive a 71 MGB with options, 10 & 2 at all times and the right foot firmly planted. 

[carusoam]

Going deeper with the original idea…

 

1) Additional training inevitably improves one’s flying….

2) Have you considered additional training to improve one’s automotive skill?

MS has a few race track drivers and trainers…

Could be a fun and valuable idea….

 

As for the Tesla idea… each Tesla has different levels of hardware… I saw some new Tesla ads this weekend… for a monthly subscription vs. buy it now price… for an update for 90% of their vehicles…

 

None of them will protect you from Hank’s semi mentioned above…. 

Some people are not familiar with what level they have… expecting one level, and having the other… could be extra disappointing…

PP thoughts only…

Best regards,

-a-

[Will.iam]

I know after my formation flight training i had a really hard time not wanting to get “into position” on a car in the next lane. 

[BDPetersen]

Better yet is the steering wheel replacement in my Mooney. I used one from an old DeSoto. Not sure what the horn button does. ( I’m kidding.)

[midlifeflyer]

On 7/19/2021 at 7:06 AM, BDPetersen said:

Better yet is the steering wheel replacement in my Mooney. I used one from an old DeSoto. Not sure what the horn button does. ( I’m kidding.)

Push to talk.

[GeeBee]

The Porsche training people want you to grip the wheel at the spoke point on the wheel with your thumbs over the spoke. I also have self driving on my car, however, if you do not keep your hands on the wheel following through, it will ding you, it will assume after 30 seconds that you are incapacitated, pull off to the side of the road and stop, illuminate the 4 way flashers and dial emergency service after 1 minute. You do not want to let go of the wheel during self driving.

 

[211º]

Although not a railroad engineer, I’ve ridden headend of Amtrak’s Northeast corridor trains many times. They have the same deadman type switch - except you have to take your hands off of the controls every so often… otherwise the train slows to stop. 

[jlunseth]

I used to actually transfer some of the aviation training to driving. For example, I had an instructor who taught some loss of instrument flying, so in a simple set up like a carbureted Warrior, cover up the ASI and manage airspeed with the engine settings. I started covering the instruments in my car (a Suburban) with a piece of paper to develop a “feel” for correct speed. It worked pretty good, I could gauge speed within 5 mph. I also don’t feel the need to go as fast as I once did in the car. If I want to get somewhere fast, I use my 200 mph vehicle instead of the 65 mph one that always has bears chasing it anyway.

[EricJ]

18 hours ago, GeeBee said:

The Porsche training people want you to grip the wheel at the spoke point on the wheel with your thumbs over the spoke. 

Performance driving (e.g., road racing) always benefits from 9 and 3 o'clock hand positions, because it gives you the best feedback feel from the steering wheel and gives you the greatest input torque and range of steering with both hands.   On long corners many race drivers will shuffle their hands to be at 9 and 3 in the corner for this reason.    Fatigue reduction for people who spend long hours in cars (e.g., police), tend to train further down, at about 7:30 and 4:30.   The guy that runs the school I used to help teach driving at call the steering wheel spokes "thumb hangars", as in most modern cars they help position your hands properly and help minimize fatigue for that position.   Personally I don't think much about holding a steering wheel translates to flying, other than being sensitive to feedback and input forces.

[Yetti]

I keep the thumbs outside the steering wheel because my dad taught me that if the wheel jerked it could break your thumb.   Yoke is thumb and forefinger.  No Cruise Control so hand fly all the time.

I would love to see the data from lane departure warning over time to see if I learned to keep it in the middle of the lane better over time.  IE less error rate.   There are times when the car is on the centerline, just because it seems more correct.

[GeeBee]

I'll say this, all these features though at times aggravating, make me a better driver. I always use my signal when crossing into the right turn or left turn lane now because the lane keeping software does not like it!

[Hank]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

I'll say this, all these features though at times aggravating, make me a better driver. I always use my signal when crossing into the right turn or left turn lane now because the lane keeping software does not like it!

I shut that durn thing off! Not wild about the auto-following cruise control that defaults to the furthest position back, and brakes hard when a car is in the left turn lane . . . .

Too much automation takes the fun out of driving and flying.

[GeeBee]

A while back, unknown to me a large truck was drifting left into my right rear quarter panel. The car moved left, slammed on the brakes and kept me from a collision. It can be aggravating at times, and other times, it can save your bacon. Not turning it off.

 

[EricJ]

15 hours ago, Yetti said:

I keep the thumbs outside the steering wheel because my dad taught me that if the wheel jerked it could break your thumb. 

Off-road 4-wheelers often do that, and if you're going to crash into something it's best to let go completely for the same reason.   Some people reach inside the wheel from the opposite side when turning, and that's a bad habit partially for this reason as well.  

For normal street or performance driving you'll get better feedback and control and less fatigue with the thumb on the spoke.    Not a huge difference, but a real one.   Keeping track of when to and when not to and all the other stuff is more than most people do or are willing to do when driving, but there are a lot of little things like this that can make a difference.

 

[Yetti]

14 hours ago, Hank said:

I shut that durn thing off! Not wild about the auto-following cruise control that defaults to the furthest position back, and brakes hard when a car is in the left turn lane . . . .

Too much automation takes the fun out of driving and flying.

Best I can tell the Subaru adaptive speed control will accelerate when you use the turn signal.   Makes sense since I am trying to get around them and go faster.   I did have to turn off the lane warning system  too many beeps.   The target lock for the adaptive speed control is pretty cool.   I would redo it with some missiles mounted to my car.  Subaru you can adjust how close you fallow.