Davidv Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 This is a general question for the military folks here or others who may know the answer. Occasionally I’ll get advisories from ATC of “live fire” in the warning areas. Obviously I’m going to stay clear of these areas but it got me thinking of the exact nature of this live fire. I’m sure this is a very dumb question, but what are they firing at in the middle of the ocean? I’ve always thought of bombing runs on the ground and that makes sense, but targets in the water? They can’t be firing weapons in any other direction since it would risk hitting a civilian plane just outside of the warning area, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 They could be firing missiles at drone targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidv Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 18 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: They could be firing missiles at drone targets. That’s true, but just seems like a lot of margin for error when you’re firing laterally line one of these areas. For instance, when I was flying from NJ to FL on Wednesday W-137L was the only area with live fire and it’s an area of 8 x 22 miles. Maybe that’s a large distance in terms of missiles or other ammunition? I have very little knowledge on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9405V Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 Artillery, missles, rockets, and other things that don’t mix well with airplanes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Junkin Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Davidv said: This is a general question for the military folks here or others who may know the answer. Occasionally I’ll get advisories from ATC of “live fire” in the warning areas. Obviously I’m going to stay clear of these areas but it got me thinking of the exact nature of this live fire. I’m sure this is a very dumb question, but what are they firing at in the middle of the ocean? I’ve always thought of bombing runs on the ground and that makes sense, but targets in the water? They can’t be firing weapons in any other direction since it would risk hitting a civilian plane just outside of the warning area, correct? This is most likely USN activity, exercising a ship's fire control systems. The threat is more to surface ships but the safety protocol is to keep aircraft clear in the event of anomalies that could send rounds up to where we could be. Cheers, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidv Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, Junkman said: This is most likely USN activity, exercising a ship's fire control systems. The threat is more to surface ships but the safety protocol is to keep aircraft clear in the event of anomalies that could send rounds up to where we could be. Cheers, Rick Thanks, that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 AIM definition A warning area is airspace of defined dimensions, extending from three nautical miles outward from the coast of the U.S., that contains activity that may be hazardous to nonparticipating aircraft. The purpose of such warning areas is to warn nonparticipating pilots of the potential danger. A warning area may be located over domestic or international waters or both. That should be enough to keep me out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidv Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 Just now, GeeBee said: AIM definition A warning area is airspace of defined dimensions, extending from three nautical miles outward from the coast of the U.S., that contains activity that may be hazardous to nonparticipating aircraft. The purpose of such warning areas is to warn nonparticipating pilots of the potential danger. A warning area may be located over domestic or international waters or both. That should be enough to keep me out! Yes, my question wasn’t about whether to stay in or out, just a general curiosity about what happens in real life during the “live fire” areas. I often see commercial aircraft traverse the very edge of these boundaries (albeit at a higher altitude) so I assume the military is exercising some caution in where they are firing… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 Call the controlling authority of the warning area on the phone. Ask them what's going on. They might actually tell you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 Call the controlling authority of the warning area on the phone. Ask them what's going on. They might actually tell you.But then if they do tell, they will have to shoot you!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 There was a TFR down at Gila Bend AAF. A few years ago. It said there was an A-10 competition. I looked the event up on the web and found the officer putting it together. I emailed him and asked if there was a good place to park and watch. He told me exactly where to park for the best view. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to make it. It would have been cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) If the warning area was in US territory, it would be a Restricted Area, or so I have been told. I’m real sure the airspace is monitored and if you transit it, they will knock it off until your clear, but betting on that may not be the best idea, besides your shutting down a range that I’m sure cost the taxpayer a whole lot of money per hour. ‘I just noticed something interesting yesterday flying though a MOA, Military aircraft don’t have ADSB, or at least these didn’t, but they still showed up as targets from TIS-B ground station broadcast apparently, so sometimes you can track them on ADSB in Edited July 17, 2021 by A64Pilot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 On 7/16/2021 at 5:08 AM, Davidv said: This is a general question for the military folks here or others who may know the answer. Occasionally I’ll get advisories from ATC of “live fire” in the warning areas. Obviously I’m going to stay clear of these areas but it got me thinking of the exact nature of this live fire. I’m sure this is a very dumb question, but what are they firing at in the middle of the ocean? I’ve always thought of bombing runs on the ground and that makes sense, but targets in the water? They can’t be firing weapons in any other direction since it would risk hitting a civilian plane just outside of the warning area, correct? Not sure about the warning area up by NJ, but we definitely shot air to air missiles at sub and full scale drones in the warning areas in the Gulf of Mexico. Strict procedures for making sure everyone else not in the scenario was outside max range. There’s a smaller requirement for airspace when you’re shooting the air to air gun at banner targets. Bullets don’t go near as far. But there’s a lot of them… 6000 rounds per minute in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will.iam Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 I used to fly a rental plane from Altus Oklahoma to home to see my parents on the weekend and flew underneath the sheppard active MOA’s that were 9000-23000. With VFR flight following they would call out traffic that was up in the MOA’s it was like a free airshow on the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 9 hours ago, Will.iam said: I used to fly a rental plane from Altus Oklahoma to home to see my parents on the weekend and flew underneath the sheppard active MOA’s that were 9000-23000. With VFR flight following they would call out traffic that was up in the MOA’s it was like a free airshow on the way. Ha! Probably more dangerous going through there! Student pilots at 500kts in T38s doing 10000’ loops and trying to stay mostly in their MOA. I clearly remember turning off my mode c on the way up and back on during the way down! 6 gs and 500 kts at the bottom trying not to bust the top and the floor on the same loop! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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