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Panel placement for Turn Coordinator


JoeM

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Wondering if there is a rule stating where the TC needs to be installed? I replaced my 2" T&B with an AV-20s (has all the features of TC + clock + more) but is can't be primary as a TC. So I need a TC for IFR.  I have a 3" hole on the co-pilot's side I would like to use if it is legal. Anyone know? Thanks. 

 

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Mine is now top row just left of my Aspen.  I kept it because a number of people told me how strange/difficult it was to transition to the little lines on the newer displays.   

At some point when it dies I'll replace it with another GI275 or possibly whatever the latest and greatest "must have" that out there and fits in that whole.

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Joe, I like you too much to follow your logic… :)


Legality is one thing…

Does it work for the PIC may be a separate situation…

People are moving away from TCs in droves…

Primarily for when they fly in IMC…

If you avoid IMC… VMC, no big deal…

If you fly in IMC regularly…

Your back-up instruments are important… specially when you have a vac driven AI…

Having the second attitude indicator on a page at the back of a menu can leave you in a tough spot when the chips are down…

Having a TC not in your usual scan, then add on an emergency, would be bad…

TCs are crummy back up devices on their best days… because as they wear… they are not stable enough to follow in the bumps… does you old TC bounce around in bumpy weather?

 

When the legal issues need to be reviewed… check with your instrument guy… if you are buying new instruments to do the job… find out If it is a legal back-up for your main instruments… it’s in the install documents and pretty easy to read…

Double check to see if the AV20 doesn’t actually qualify…  if it doesn’t qualify… why would you want to use it?

My love for the AV20 went away with their AOA system in the same instrument… it doesn’t work.

In an electronic device where one part doesn’t work for unexplained reasons… how comfortable can you be using it to keep the clean side up when things are getting stressful?

 

Do you fly in IMC?

PP thoughts only, not a CFI or instrument guy…

 

Unfortunately, this topic is getting more complex over time… with all the options available getting better…

Pick a good back-up attitude indicator… put the fancy clock anywhere it needs to go… :)

Best regards,

-a-

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On 6/23/2021 at 2:41 PM, JoeM said:

Wondering if there is a rule stating where the TC needs to be installed? I replaced my 2" T&B with an AV-20s (has all the features of TC + clock + more) but is can't be primary as a TC. So I need a TC for IFR.  I have a 3" hole on the co-pilot's side I would like to use if it is legal. Anyone know? Thanks. 

 

"Just because you can doesn't mean you should"

Even if it was legal, is it practical? If you went out and flew under the hood with a safety pilot and covered everything up but the turn coordinator on the co-pilot's side could you keep the airplane straight and level? 

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On 6/23/2021 at 12:41 PM, JoeM said:

Wondering if there is a rule stating where the TC needs to be installed? I replaced my 2" T&B with an AV-20s (has all the features of TC + clock + more) but is can't be primary as a TC. So I need a TC for IFR.  I have a 3" hole on the co-pilot's side I would like to use if it is legal. Anyone know? Thanks. 

 

a primary on the wrong side is useless 
Replace your AV20 with an instrument that can be primary . The RC Allen is a good option with very little wiring required ( unlike the G5) 

move the av 20 to the copilot side if you don’t know what to do with it 

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Sounds like you need to buy or cut and install a new panel with the layout you want.   That's the way to solve this problem.  Lot's of panel ideas here on MS.  Use google to search something like "panel layout site:mooneyspace.com".

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On 6/30/2021 at 8:17 AM, OR75 said:

a primary on the wrong side is useless 
Replace your AV20 with an instrument that can be primary . The RC Allen is a good option with very little wiring required ( unlike the G5) 

move the av 20 to the copilot side if you don’t know what to do with it 

Simple install, just power and ground. Can be purchased with a battery backup and has slip/skid as well as turn rate and without all the extra stuff there is on a G-5 or GI275 it is super simple to fly with. On a recent flight to KSGU I decided to test the life of the battery. I pulled the breaker and with it at 100% brightness it died at 55 minutes. On the return flight I let it charge back to 100%, then turned the brightness down to 80% and pulled the breaker. 1 1/2 hours later as we were getting ready to land it was still at 32% power. At 80% brightness it was still easy to read with full sun and my sunglasses on. If you were actual IMC I think you could probably turn it down to 50-60% brightness and my guess is get 2-3 hours out of the battery.

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Right now, I have a 275 in the hole where the TC was. It is a backup AI that has the required temp probe so it can serve as a legal TC. I don't find it at all difficult to read. One of the things on my plan for additions, though, is a simple ball. Losing all the electronics is a real possibility. At least you would have a means of staying out of a skidding turn. Believe it or not, the simple ball in a curved glass still, well, it still works just as it did forty years ago. What a great, non-software dependent idea!

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2 hours ago, jlunseth said:

 One of the things on my plan for additions, though, is a simple ball. Losing all the electronics is a real possibility. At least you would have a means of staying out of a skidding turn. Believe it or not, the simple ball in a curved glass still, well, it still works just as it did forty years ago. What a great, non-software dependent idea!

aka, the inclinometer.    It bugs me that glass panels don't at least have just a physical inclinometer glued on there somewhere.    They take no power to run and are highly reliable.   How is putting that function in the display an improvement?

 

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5 hours ago, EricJ said:

aka, the inclinometer.    It bugs me that glass panels don't at least have just a physical inclinometer glued on there somewhere.    They take no power to run and are highly reliable.   How is putting that function in the display an improvement?

 

Believe it or not, you can still buy one.

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Replace the Turn Coordinator with a certified Attitude Indicator.

The turn coordinator is no longer required and may be replaced by an appropriate AI.  The FAA has published guidance allowing this in AC 91-75.  They have determined that a backup AI is a safer redundancy and easier to use than a TC.

Of course, rate based autopilots may need the TC for reference.  In these applications a TC can be blind-mounted behind the panel or could be located on the co-pilot side as long as an AI replaces it in the primary pilots field of view.

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