M20C head on collision with Hanger Beam

[Hank]

22 minutes ago, rdbroderson said:

Yes this is how I normally exit the hanger. I back it in. and place it where there is room. Luckily there were no other planes in the hanger. They were moved because they are  doing an extensive update on our airport so the rest of the planes were moved to different locations. And yes I was north of 2000 when this happened but it was all so fast I didn't have time to react. The parking brake was off. Believe me I will power down if there is ever a next time and check out why my plane is not moving. Expensive lesson learned. The higher the cost of lessons the longer you remember them. No chalk blocks in place.

I park like you do, have for over ten years since I bought my C in 2007. I move into and out of the hangar using the towbar on the nosewheel, and either then the plane so the prop blast doesn't go into the hangar when I start the engine, or shut the door first.

Why do you start up inside? That would blow around everything in the hangar . . . .

[rdbroderson]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

I park like you do, have for over ten years since I bought my C in 2007. I move into and out of the hangar using the towbar on the nosewheel, and either then the plane so the prop blast doesn't go into the hangar when I start the engine, or shut the door first.

Why do you start up inside? That would blow around everything in the hangar . . . .

To Hank, I guess I have no reason for starting in the hanger. It's just the way my dad did it and I just followed suit. Not a good Idea for sure.

[EricJ]

21 minutes ago, rdbroderson said:

I would be willing to bet that the frame structure got bent or twisted. Haven't really looked into it a lot yet other than remove the right Cowling cover, saw that the engine was pushed back. Enough to limit the forward motion of the stabilizer control.

From your description it sounds very possible that you might be able to purchase several nice replacement M20Cs for the what it might cost to repair this one.   You suggested it has sentimental value, but it may come to assessing how much that's really worth.

 

[201Steve]

I say fix it. The man says money is no object here, and that’s the only thing from making her good as new. Money and running point on the logistical coordination. 

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

Airplanes hit beams, it happens. This is the wing tip of my C-140, can you tell that it was an orange beam? 

I was pushing the aircraft, but it happens. Been at least ten years ago.

Completely off-topic comment, but that photo had my brain doing all sorts of loops trying to figure out what the heck I was looking at!  "What kind of person carries oriental rungs stuck to the wingtip of their crop duster??  Oh..." 

[rdbroderson]

On 6/19/2021 at 5:49 PM, Greg Ellis said:

Don’t have any help to offer but noticed that we are 5 serial numbers apart.  Probably in the factory at the same time way back when.

To Greg, Interesting

[rdbroderson]

On 6/19/2021 at 3:19 PM, markgrue said:

Where is the airplane? 

 

Mark 

To Mark, Yes the plane is in Watford City, ND

[rdbroderson]

21 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

Just curious....

You started the engine in your hang"a"r and you were planning to power out?  Is this normal in your type of hangar?, meaning is it what others do all the time?

Also how much power would you have added if the brakes did not release?  full power? for the plane to take off at a high rate of speed you must have had in north of 2000 RPM....maybe the parking brake was on and it gave up or there was a chalk in place....

Glad no one was hurt and glad there is no insurance claim....for you money does not seem to be an issue but for the rest of us we have premiums going up like crazy and we are glad we don't have to pay for this.....

To Jim, I never have been an insurance fan but sometimes it comes back to bite you. I have always carried only required by law. I've saved a lot of money over 40 years. My wife goes crazy with the thought of no insurance on our house. We paid through the nose for 30 years on our old farm and ranch house and in the end we just decided to doze it away any way and build new. I asked her how many houses we have lost since this place was homesteaded. She said 0. I said their you go. If we lose something we will just build again. I have no Idea what insurance rates are doing on airplanes but I'm sure they are not going down. Kind of off the subject here but what the heck.

[carusoam]

rd,

See if you can get moving on this project…

Sure… the project can be a whole can of worms… but, it doesn’t have to be…

Yes, planes can easily get twisted… Mooneys don’t…

pics of the damage tell a little about what may be lying underneath…

Fortunately we have enough inspection panels and removable panels to see everything…

 

Aside from the hard learned rule of not running a plane inside the hangar…. There is just way too many unknown risks of what can happen next…. From stuff blowing around and doors falling off hinges…

Its really fun to watch Mike Patey back a turbine into a hangar… with a camera crew paying the way…

Some things are best left for the YouTube world…

 

I have seen the results of a C152 lose control while tied down… outside…. Imagine doing a run-up thinking the tie down ropes are going to hold the plane… the owner of three days, broke a tie down… rotated around the other… and smacked nose to nose into a much more expensive plane… it happened so fast he didn’t know what had happened…

The C152 was totaled… the other plane got a new prop, engine and a bunch of inspections to put things back in order…

Lessons learned… small engines have a ton of power… use them wisely…

Bashing into things randomly can total a plane… or cause 10s of AMUs worth of damage… and months of down time…

Fortunately, you don’t have to apologize to your neighbor… 

It might not be all that bad…

For inspections… it is helpful to have a mechanic that is Mooney familiar…  when it comes time for rebuilding, a Mooney mechanic becomes more important…

 

Also know…

Times have changed… things Dad did were OK back in the day… it’s OK to let go of some of the past… like adding a CO monitor to the panel, and shoulder harnesses to the seatbelts…

I use a hand tow bar to pull my ovation out of the hangar and turn it 90 degrees…

The wind rating on the hangar structure means nothing from the inside… the rating is for the hangar when closed up and the wind blowing by the outside…

All this gets shared… because somebody else did this before…  somebody will do it again…

You are also seeing responses from people that take damaging Mooneys near personally… as if their insurance is going up, or parts won’t be available for their bird…  nobody likes to see a pet get beaten… 

Share some pics…

Lets see if there is hope of getting things back in the air…

It would be shame to not use this great education you just got…

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

 

[A64Pilot]

11 hours ago, EricJ said:

From your description it sounds very possible that you might be able to purchase several nice replacement M20Cs for the what it might cost to repair this one.   You suggested it has sentimental value, but it may come to assessing how much that's really worth.

 

It may make sense to buy an old airplane as a parts donor, isn’t someone trying to sell one without an engine and prop?

[A64Pilot]

10 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Completely off-topic comment, but that photo had my brain doing all sorts of loops trying to figure out what the heck I was looking at!  "What kind of person carries oriental rungs stuck to the wingtip of their crop duster??  Oh..." 

I have the Wife’s car under the wing or I could have gotten closer to take the photo, but yes the hangar is slowly becoming a storage place for things like rugs that the Wife says don’t go with the new house, but I know what I paid for them, so I’m not throwing them away, maybe one of the kids can use them.

[Marauder]

17 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

Reminds me of this, I hope we all did not have to contribute to this repair...but I bet we did...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KpOg9Ci284

Wonder why he didn't pull the chute. Sorry, that was low hanging fruit.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, rdbroderson said:

To Hank, I guess I have no reason for starting in the hanger. It's just the way my dad did it and I just followed suit. Not a good Idea for sure.

Not to be critical, but if you’re in a communal hangar it’s a bit inconsiderate to the blast the others in the hangar.

Clarence

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Wonder why he didn't pull the chute. Sorry, that was low hanging fruit.

He could have used one of your girls as an anchor.  It would have been cheaper than the parachute and more fun too.

Clarence

[Greg Ellis]

19 hours ago, rdbroderson said:

Yes this is how I normally exit the hanger. I back it in. and place it where there is room. Luckily there were no other planes in the hanger. They were moved because they are  doing an extensive update on our airport so the rest of the planes were moved to different locations. And yes I was north of 2000 when this happened but it was all so fast I didn't have time to react. The parking brake was off. Believe me I will power down if there is ever a next time and check out why my plane is not moving. Expensive lesson learned. The higher the cost of lessons the longer you remember them. No chalk blocks in place.

Wow.  At my airport if you were to start your airplane in the hangar and taxi out that way, you would lose your hangar space.  It is in the contact signed when you lease the hangar.  You must pull the airplane out, turn it away from the hangar before starting the engine.

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Greg Ellis said:

Wow.  At my airport if you were to start your airplane in the hangar and taxi out that way, you would lose your hangar space.  It is in the contact signed when you lease the hangar.  You must pull the airplane out, turn it away from the hangar before starting the engine.

We face the same thing in our hangar group.  People seem to have little appreciation for the property of others.  Refueling in hangars, run ups aimed at hangars.  Thankfully most of them have moved on.

Clarence

[thinwing]

I ve never heard of anyone in 40 years of flying actually powering out of a hangar...especially a larger group hangar that you describe.So ,my question is when the other aircraft are in place..do you also fire up and power out??Dont the other aircraft owners yell and scream at you?Frankly,im supprised the hangar owner hasnt put a stop to such shenigans as he could be held liable for damage from flyiing trashcans,service carts etc.Sorry you had to learn the hard way but I think your dad taught you some bad habits...maybe its time to get a tug like everybody else.

[MikeOH]

On 6/20/2021 at 3:56 AM, Jim Peace said:

Just curious....

You started the engine in your hang"a"r and you were planning to power out?  Is this normal in your type of hangar?, meaning is it what others do all the time?

Also how much power would you have added if the brakes did not release?  full power? for the plane to take off at a high rate of speed you must have had in north of 2000 RPM....maybe the parking brake was on and it gave up or there was a chalk in place....

Glad no one was hurt and glad there is no insurance claim....for you money does not seem to be an issue but for the rest of us we have premiums going up like crazy and we are glad we don't have to pay for this.....

You seem more interested in criticism than curiosity.

BTW, since you feel the need to criticize others' spelling...it's chock, NOT chalk.

[MikeOH]

On 6/20/2021 at 6:08 PM, rdbroderson said:

Yes this is how I normally exit the hanger. I back it in. and place it where there is room. Luckily there were no other planes in the hanger. They were moved because they are  doing an extensive update on our airport so the rest of the planes were moved to different locations. And yes I was north of 2000 when this happened but it was all so fast I didn't have time to react. The parking brake was off. Believe me I will power down if there is ever a next time and check out why my plane is not moving. Expensive lesson learned. The higher the cost of lessons the longer you remember them. No chalk blocks in place.

I feel bad for you that you didn't have insurance; although I suspect they would total the plane.

This is exactly what insurance is for: mistakes.  When viewed in hindsight I don't think I've ever seen a smart mistake  And, anyone who thinks only their mistakes are worthy of being paid for by insurance (i.e. other people) is pretty arrogant, IMHO.

[carusoam]

At MS…. We have a word of the day prize… my favorite was that word that is the name for a freebie you get at a restaurant… for being a valued customer… 

Spelling is always a challenge…

Often we get help with our spelling from Siri… and what does she know about airplanes?

Siri is known to toss in words that are correctly spelled but completely destroy the meaning of the entire sentence…

Don’t be surprised… somebody may be trying to help you out… but the way they say something can be really easy to misinterpret…. Error on the good side… take what some people say to mean the right thing…. 

I have spent hours trying to help people out… misspelling plenty of words along the way… not keeping up with what Siri throws in…

Realize there are many people here that English isn’t their first language…

Often somebody means well by pointing out a mis-spelling…. There just isn’t a friendly way of saying it in a written forum…

Being new to flying is extra tough… there is sooooo much to know… to learn… to re-learn…

The more people you know… the better off you can be… 

Try to be nice to everyone…. Even while you are having a crummy day yourself…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[ArtVandelay]

It seems like the most dangerous time for a plane is when it’s not airborne.
Similarly most boat accidents occur around the dock/marina.
Mooneys wing span only leaves about 1.5’ of clearance into a standard T hangar.
I never allow someone to “help” me push my plane, because you’re giving up control.
When tied down there can be 2 planes behind you on each side, please use minimal power to get yourself moving.

[mike20papa]

I pray there are NO insurance underwriters reading this thread.  If so .. God help us all.

[Shadrach]

21 minutes ago, mike20papa said:

I pray there are NO insurance underwriters reading this thread.  If so .. God help us all.

Underwriters are probably too busy analyzing Cirrus loses to troll a Mooney forum.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mike20papa said:

I pray there are NO insurance underwriters reading this thread.  If so .. God help us all.

Or FAA inspectors

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, mike20papa said:

I pray there are NO insurance underwriters reading this thread.  If so .. God help us all.

 

4 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Or FAA inspectors

So, tell me, how do you guys only make completely legal and insurance claim worthy mistakes?  Or, do you just never make mistakes?