PMA 7000B vs. PMA 450B

[Andy95W]

I wanted to pose the question to our community for those who have had either the PS Engineering PMA 7000B (with BT) or the 450B- or hopefully both for a better comparison.  Nobody has to convince me that the 450B is better.  I’ve done the research, it is unquestionably better.  What I’m wondering is if the extra capability is worth the $900 price differential.  EDIT: so basically, I can buy the 7000B for $1295 “because the airplane needs it”, but I need the wife’s consent for the $2195 PMA 450B. 

Currently, I’m very happy with my 35 year old KMA-24 and Sigtronics intercom.  I certainly don’t need more capability, and I’m proudly a CB.  Also, after rewiring the audio system, it’s an extremely “quiet” intercom and audio panel.  But long-in-the-tooth is an understatement, and my KMA-24 is in for work right now.

One upside to the 7000B is that it is pin-compatible with the KMA, so installation will be simpler to interface with my existing radios.  The 450B has the fancy IntelliAudio, but I’m not sure if that’s worth the extra money.  Both have BlueTooth, which would be nice but not really necessary. 

I noticed the 450 has a USB plug on the front.  Any chance that’s Apple CarPlay compatible?    Maybe for the PMA 450C, when it comes out...  I should probably suggest that to @Mscheuer...

Thanks in advance for the help.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Andy95W

[Niko182]

23 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

I wanted to pose the question to our community for those who have had either the PS Engineering PMA 7000B (with BT) or the 450B- or hopefully both for a better comparison.  Nobody has to convince me that the 450B is better.  I’ve done the research, it is unquestionably better.  What I’m wondering is if the extra capability is worth the $900 price differential.

Currently, I’m very happy with my 35 year old KMA-24 and Sigtronics intercom.  I certainly don’t need more capability, and I’m proudly a CB.  Also, after rewiring the audio system, it’s an extremely “quiet” intercom and audio panel.  But long-in-the-tooth is an understatement, and my KMA-24 is in for work right now.

One upside to the 7000B is that it is pin-compatible with the KMA, so installation will be simpler to interface with my existing radios.  The 450B has the fancy IntelliAudio, but I’m not sure if that’s worth the extra money.  Both have BlueTooth, which would be nice but not really necessary. 

I noticed the 450 has a USB plug on the front.  Any chance that’s Apple CarPlay compatible?    Maybe for the PMA 450C, when it comes out...  I should probably suggest that to @Mscheuer...

Thanks in advance for the help.

The intelliAudio is very nice. The OLED screen makes it very easy to use. If you fly with other people, the 2 sources of BT are very nice, and you can turn the radio off for all passengers. I think its worthwhile.

[Vance Harral]

We've had the 7000B for about 9 years and have been happy with it.  Installed it to replace a KMA-24 just like you're contemplating.

I don't long for IntelliAudio, but that feature sure seems to get a lot of press.  I've only experienced it on the ground, in a marketing booth at a show, which probably is not the environment where it would really shine.  I find that in almost all cases, old-school patience is sufficient to distinguish one audio source from another.  But sometimes that requires shutting off one of the sources for a few seconds while waiting for the other to quiet down, and that can be an annoyance.

The Bluetooth audio output seems like a nice feature for those who want to Youtube their flights, but that's just not our thing.  And the variety of Bluetooth music input options seem superfluous in the modern era, where nearly every passenger has their own audio source and connection to their own headset.

Having said all that, the incremental cost of the hardware is almost nothing compared to installation costs and general flying costs.  If we had the work done today instead of a decade ago, it's very likely we'd choose the 450.

[Ragsf15e]

Can you BT in the audio from Foreflight?  Some of that seems useful.  I also like the USB charging capability (probably no interference like lighter usb chargers) and the separate BT inputs which can be separated out to passengers so the kids get their own movie audio.  Finally the ability to turn off the radio to pax is nice for those that want to read or whatever, but not be “isolated”.  I’ve been trying to convince myself to put in a 450B for my current GMA340 for a while.  Super easy swap, but It just hurts so much to take out something that works perfectly and put in something new that costs a couple amu.  If your current audio panel is struggling at all, I’d definitely pull the trigger though.

How much can you get for a used gma340?

Edited June 12, 2021 by Ragsf15e

[FoxMike]

I put a 450A in my Bravo years ago and have enjoyed it. It will BT to my phone or iPad so I have music.  The audio quality is great and the intellivox is a useful feature.  I tried the intellivox on the Garmin panel and found it very inferior at the time.  Garmin may have improved it by now.  You can probably find a used 450A for a reasonable price and the wiring is not that big a deal.  Good luck!

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, Andy95W said:

I wanted to pose the question to our community for those who have had either the PS Engineering PMA 7000B (with BT) or the 450B- or hopefully both for a better comparison.  Nobody has to convince me that the 450B is better.  I’ve done the research, it is unquestionably better.  What I’m wondering is if the extra capability is worth the $900 price differential.  EDIT: so basically, I can buy the 7000B for $1295 “because the airplane needs it”, but I need the wife’s consent for the $2195 PMA 450B. 

Currently, I’m very happy with my 35 year old KMA-24 and Sigtronics intercom.  I certainly don’t need more capability, and I’m proudly a CB.  Also, after rewiring the audio system, it’s an extremely “quiet” intercom and audio panel.  But long-in-the-tooth is an understatement, and my KMA-24 is in for work right now.

One upside to the 7000B is that it is pin-compatible with the KMA, so installation will be simpler to interface with my existing radios.  The 450B has the fancy IntelliAudio, but I’m not sure if that’s worth the extra money.  Both have BlueTooth, which would be nice but not really necessary. 

I noticed the 450 has a USB plug on the front.  Any chance that’s Apple CarPlay compatible?    Maybe for the PMA 450C, when it comes out...  I should probably suggest that to @Mscheuer...

Thanks in advance for the help.

In early 2016 i was upgrading an early 90's panel and trying to get it into the 21st Century. It had a KMA-24 so I used the same logic you did and saved a few dollars on the unit and a few dollars on the install. Although the 7000 with BT works well, I've kicked myself ever since for not just doing it once and doing it right. I'm sure I'll end up putting in the next version of the PMA450X. My avionics shop says it will take about a day to re-pin everything, plus of course the cost of the new unit.

[Andy95W]

One additional question, for those that have the 450B with IntelliAudio:

-Is it really that effective, to be able to put COM 1 audio at 10 o’clock and COM 2 at 2 o’clock?  It seems like it should be really beneficial, but I’m wondering what people think, using it out in the real world.

Again, thanks in advance for the help (BTW, I’m leaning toward the 450B, “because the airplane needs it”. )

[FoxMike]

I find the Intellivox to be useful for picking up ASOS or ATIS while working a busy approach controller. Also useful when making an approach to an uncontrolled field.  You can listen to the traffic in the pattern (assuming the field is VFR) and make a report before you get too close.  A couple of weeks ago I was number 5 in the pattern at LMO.  Everyone in front of me in turn reported downwind, base leg and final. As we were turning base a 182 broke out of the haze on an instrument approach just outside of our position. The student apparently had not been monitoring the unicom so he was surprised to almost hit us.  On straight-in approach you need to be informed.  

[McMooney]

I replaced a kma-20 and intercom with the pma 8000G, step up from 7000 but not quite a 450.

Intelliaudio, is just nice.  makes it a lot easier to monitor multiple sources.  bluetooth in and out is killer.

makes it real easy to call up and get clearances on the ground.  beyond that, i never bother with all the other features.

 

the install cost of the 450 will dwarf the purchase price.  they have to rewire the plane for stereo along with reconnecting all the other components.

if i had had a kma24, i'd have bought the 7000 and spent the upgrade monies elsewhere

 

[McMooney]

9 hours ago, McMooney said:

I replaced a kma-20 and intercom with the pma 8000G, step up from 7000 but not quite a 450.

Intelliaudio, is just nice.  makes it a lot easier to monitor multiple sources.  bluetooth in and out is killer.

makes it real easy to call up and get clearances on the ground.  beyond that, i never bother with all the other features.

 

the install cost of the 450 will dwarf the purchase price.  they have to rewire the plane for stereo along with reconnecting all the other components.

if i had had a kma24, i'd have bought the 7000 and spent the upgrade monies elsewhere

 

Oh yeah, auto-muting of a monitored comm channel is awesome.  I now tend to set my next frequency very early and just set it to active.  knowing it'll eventually start working but not be in the way of the primary channel.

USB PORT is KILLER.

[carusoam]

Great details McM!

Thanks for sharing them all…

Lets see if @Marauder has any more to add… (PMA450B question)

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

One additional question, for those that have the 450B with IntelliAudio:
-Is it really that effective, to be able to put COM 1 audio at 10 o’clock and COM 2 at 2 o’clock?  It seems like it should be really beneficial, but I’m wondering what people think, using it out in the real world.
Again, thanks in advance for the help (BTW, I’m leaning toward the 450B, “because the airplane needs it”. )

Andy - I went from a KMA 20 (with a Sigmatek intercom) to a 8000BT to the 450 to the 450A.

The Intelliaudio works great. I have the com frequency I am on in the left ear (at the 9 o’clock) and 121.5 in the right ear (at the 3 o’clock). I flew in between Philly and the DC metroplex and having 121.5 on is needed. And then flipping the second com monitoring ATIS while still having guard up has become second nature for me. It is amazing how your brain can listen to different audios this way.

I like the 450A’s display over the 450’s LCD screen. Also, actually seeing a menu on an audio panel allows you to see the functionality rather than trying to remember which button sequence gave you the feature. That was my big rub with the 8000BT. I always had to drag out the POH to find what buttons I needed to push to get some hidden feature.

I REALLY like the telephone interface on the 450A. It shows you that you are receiving a call and the caller ID. When you are calling out, shows the call being active and allows you to end the call on the 450A.

The intercom combinations with music is awesome. I remember my last flight with my mother-in-law and wife on board. I isolated myself and let them talk and play their music. Big step up from me instructing them in the old days that “when my hand goes up, you need to stop talking”.

It’s a big investment but as someone mentioned above, there are a lot of people upgrading to the B version and As are out there.

Good luck with the decision.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Andy95W]

Thanks, Chris, and to everyone who replied.  I’ll give them both a try at OSH this year in order to finalize the decision, and I’ll do the work next spring.  I’m expecting to buy the 450B, and if I can get my wife to try them each out with me, that’ll seal the deal.

I’m surprised at how excited I’m getting about an audio panel!

Edited June 14, 2021 by Andy95W

[Niko182]

17 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Thanks, Chris, and to everyone who replied.  I’ll give them both a try at OSH this year in order to finalize the decision, and I’ll do the work next spring.  I’m expecting to buy the 450B, and if I can get my wife to try them each out with me, that’ll seal the deal.

I’m surprised at how excited I’m getting about an audio panel!

Regardless of which one you get, it will be a major step over the kma24. 

[philiplane]

I had the PMA8000B, and switched it out the to PMA8000G rather than the PMA450. Two reasons- the 8000G has four inputs that can trigger audio alerts, the 450 does not have these. I have one serving as a "check gear" warning, another as altitude alert, another for stall warning. 

The second reason is the "HRTF" feature. This allows you to listen to both radios at the same time, with complete clarity. It puts COM1 in the left ear, and the COM2 in the right ear. You can hear tower and ATIS separately and clearly at the same time, it's amazing! The PMA450 does have this feature.

[hammdo]

I have the '7000M' bt version (mono) - enough for me - direct upgrade from the 6000M

love the Bluetooth integration...

-Don

[Mscheuer]

On 6/14/2021 at 8:24 PM, philiplane said:

I had the PMA8000B, and switched it out the to PMA8000G rather than the PMA450. Two reasons- the 8000G has four inputs that can trigger audio alerts, the 450 does not have these. I have one serving as a "check gear" warning, another as altitude alert, another for stall warning. 

The second reason is the "HRTF" feature. This allows you to listen to both radios at the same time, with complete clarity. It puts COM1 in the left ear, and the COM2 in the right ear. You can hear tower and ATIS separately and clearly at the same time, it's amazing! The PMA450 does have this feature.

FYI, the PMA450A and PMA450B has flightmate(R), the four channel audio alert system

[philiplane]

11 hours ago, Mscheuer said:

FYI, the PMA450A and PMA450B has flightmate(R), the four channel audio alert system

The PMA450 and PMA450A do not have the Flightmate feature, only the 450B produced after August 2020 does. According to the installation manuals.

Edited June 16, 2021 by philiplane

[carusoam]

1 hour ago, philiplane said:

The PMA450 and PMA450A do not have the Flightmate feature, only the 450B produced after August 2020 does.

Any idea who that is that you quoted above?  

What if you are right?

Do you follow that up with Huh, told ya so….

Sometimes it is best to be nice to the vendors…  sometimes they help pay the bills around here and supply a lot of support for their products.

If Mark was wrong…  did we endear him enough to earn a discount?

Try to find that snake oil salesman… or that big G guy….  Don’t forget the Aspen guy… We successfully ran them off too. 

Best regards,

-a-

 

[PT20J]

I’m getting a PMA450B. The killer feature that sold me is the ability to keep the copilot on the intercom with the pilot while turning off the radio audio to the copilot. Wife loves that idea.

Skip

[philiplane]

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Any idea who that is that you quoted above?  

What if you are right?

Do you follow that up with Huh, told ya so….

Sometimes it is best to be nice to the vendors…  sometimes they help pay the bills around here and supply a lot of support for their products.

If Mark was wrong…  did we endear him enough to earn a discount?

Try to find that snake oil salesman… or that big G guy….  Don’t forget the Aspen guy… We successfully ran them off too. 

Best regards,

-a-

 

Well, I ended up buying the PMA8000G last year based on a late May 2020 conversation with.... PS Engineering, where they confirmed that the alerts were not available in the 450A at that time. The 200-450-0100 installation manual Rev 3 dated 10/2016 confirms this. The B version came out several months later, in August 2020. The PMA8000G with Flightmate came out in June 2020. Quoting a mistake doesn't harm anyone, it clarifies the issue. I installed a new 450A in a customer's Cirrus in late 2016, and I can confirm it had no Flightmate feature. There are a lot of people buying used avionics and it's important to differentiate features, sometimes upon serial number groups. The prior PMA8000B has two different installation manuals, based on the serial number range. Most people don't know that. There are different features even though the labels are the same to the average person. I love their products, install them for customers, and have swapped out several in my own plane to take advantage of their new features. I'm on my third PS Engineering audio panel in four years, in the same plane.

Edited June 16, 2021 by philiplane