Insurance renewal shock

[takair]

Interesting article in AIN called “Social inflation, increased awards driving insurance premium hikes”.  See page 36.  
 

https://www.ainonline.com/sites/ainonline.com/files/full-issues/ain0722_compressed_.pdf
 

I won’t pretend to understand it all, but it puts a different perspective on  “why” our rates are going up.  It does not mention the occasional prop strikes, gear-ups, or even fatal small GA accidents that are frequently blamed.  It is a far greater issue and I think we are at the bottom of that insurance food chain with limited ability to control it.  The diminishing number of small GA certainly does not help.

[jetdriven]

Bundled into that was the 737 max which is a huge payout, but has nothing to do with GA it whatsoever.

[jetdriven]

Sure the suits begin. And the insurance company is on the hook for the defense.  But it’s that, the hull, and the policy limit.  Often it’s only 100k per seat. The pilots estate pays the rest.  

[Mooneymite]

On 6/28/2021 at 1:59 PM, Mooneymite said:

Ouch!

Renewal quote for 2 planes.  No claims, etc.

"$2,671.00/year. Up $391,00 for same coverage."  USSIC

Ouch!

 

I just got my quote for next year.  My premium increased $470/year.  My agent tells me that when I turn 75, next year, he probably will not be able to find an underwriter willing to take on my Mooney on our grass runway.  He suggested selling.

I have sold my Mooney and will be selling my experimental biplane as well.

Certainly, I can afford it, but the cost per hour does not compute and there are activities outside of aviation that are just as rewarding.  33,000 hours is enough time to sit in a cockpit.  I'm done.

[Marauder]

I just got my quote for next year.  My premium increased $470/year.  My agent tells me that when I turn 75, next year, he probably will not be able to find an underwriter willing to take on my Mooney on our grass runway.  He suggested selling.
I have sold my Mooney and will be selling my experimental biplane as well.
Certainly, I can afford it, but the cost per hour does not compute and there are activities outside of aviation that are just as rewarding.  33,000 hours is enough time to sit in a cockpit.  I'm done.

Well, don’t be a stranger!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Schllc]

13 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

I just got my quote for next year.  My premium increased $470/year.  My agent tells me that when I turn 75, next year, he probably will not be able to find an underwriter willing to take on my Mooney on our grass runway.  He suggested selling.

I have sold my Mooney and will be selling my experimental biplane as well.

Certainly, I can afford it, but the cost per hour does not compute and there are activities outside of aviation that are just as rewarding.  33,000 hours is enough time to sit in a cockpit.  I'm done.

Wow….

What an accomplishment…. 
Another way to look it is if you flew for 50 years that’s 660 hours a year, 55 hours a month, 13 hours a week or almost two hours a day, every single day for 50 years!

[MBDiagMan]

This thread has been around long enough that I wrote about my increase last year.  I wish had only increased that much this year.  It DOUBLED this year.  I am 73.  The quote was 4.5% of hull value.  I bought liability only.

[hubcap]

On 7/28/2022 at 5:52 PM, Mooneymite said:

I just got my quote for next year.  My premium increased $470/year.  My agent tells me that when I turn 75, next year, he probably will not be able to find an underwriter willing to take on my Mooney on our grass runway.  He suggested selling.

I have sold my Mooney and will be selling my experimental biplane as well.

Certainly, I can afford it, but the cost per hour does not compute and there are activities outside of aviation that are just as rewarding.  33,000 hours is enough time to sit in a cockpit.  I'm done.

If you ever want or need a ride in a Mooney you let me know. I would be happy to take you for a ride in Myrtle 

[ArtVandelay]

This thread has been around long enough that I wrote about my increase last year.  I wish had only increased that much this year.  It DOUBLED this year.  I am 73.  The quote was 4.5% of hull value.  I bought liability only.

Wow, that’s insane.

[Wildhorsetrail]

On 7/28/2022 at 3:52 PM, Mooneymite said:

I just got my quote for next year.  My premium increased $470/year.  My agent tells me that when I turn 75, next year, he probably will not be able to find an underwriter willing to take on my Mooney on our grass runway.  He suggested selling.

I have sold my Mooney and will be selling my experimental biplane as well.

Certainly, I can afford it, but the cost per hour does not compute and there are activities outside of aviation that are just as rewarding.  33,000 hours is enough time to sit in a cockpit.  I'm done.

That's a lot of hours and experience! Instead of raising your premiums they ought to give you a "safe flyer" discount!

[Mooneymite]

35 minutes ago, Wildhorsetrail said:

That's a lot of hours and experience! Instead of raising your premiums they ought to give you a "safe flyer" discount!

Ha!  I guess the insurance companies think statistically I'm way overdue for a crash!  

Much as I hate the situation, the insurance companies hold all the cards.  We just thought the FAA, the big FBO's and the tax man were our worst nightmares.  The underwriters have got to pay for the 737 Max debacle one way, or another.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Mooneymite

[GeeBee]

On 7/28/2022 at 6:52 PM, Mooneymite said:

I just got my quote for next year.  My premium increased $470/year.  My agent tells me that when I turn 75, next year, he probably will not be able to find an underwriter willing to take on my Mooney on our grass runway.  He suggested selling.

I have sold my Mooney and will be selling my experimental biplane as well.

Certainly, I can afford it, but the cost per hour does not compute and there are activities outside of aviation that are just as rewarding.  33,000 hours is enough time to sit in a cockpit.  I'm done.

Gus I am proud to say I shared a few of those 33,000 hours with you and they were enjoyable. I am thinking somewhere around 75 my spurs will be ground down to nothing too. Maybe sometime when I get down to KFFC we can meet at the chuckwagon for a few hours. Enjoy your retirement, you earned it!

[Mooneymite]

From AIN.....

AssuredPartners Warns of Bumpy Ride in Insurance Market

by Kerry Lynch

 - November 14, 2022, 1:03 PM

AssuredPartners Aerospace is advising aircraft operators to “hold on tight” because the next 12 to 18 months will be a bumpy ride in the aviation insurance marketplace. The insurance brokerage noted that more details—and litigation—are emerging from losses stemming from the Russian invasion of Ukraine, as well as from the Boeing Max fallout.

“We’re hearing from insurance companies that 2023 could be one of the hardest markets any of us have ever experienced,” warned Josh Jabour, a sales executive with AssuredPartners Aerospace. “This isn’t just for big airplanes, the piston pushers will pay their share as well.”

The brokerage pointed to a complaint aircraft lessor Aircastle filed against several insurers and Lloyd’s syndicates for failing to provide coverage over $265.9 million in damages related to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. “This is not the first legal case associated with the aviation insurance market and the war in Ukraine,” AssuredPartners noted, pointing to a lawsuit Carlyle Aviation filed earlier this year against 30 insurers for $700 million and another Dubai Aerospace filed against 11 insurers.

Further, Boeing’s claims related to the 737 Max have swelled to $3 billion—“the largest in the history of the aviation market in nominal terms, after the $2.5 billion paid out after 9/11.”

This all will push rates up in renewals and these events "have plunged the market into uncertainty, with some sources bemoaning the lack of reserving for Ukraine losses."

•  

[Parker_Woodruff]

We'll see.  There's a new carrier coming on in full force in Q1 that should keep some downward pressure on rates.

[Pinecone]

On 7/9/2021 at 6:25 PM, RobertGary1 said:

I’m just getting into helicopter flying. I can tell you those guys are rolling on the floor laughing at fixed wing guys complaining about insurance. For the same Hull they’re paying more than triple the price of a fixed wing. 

Hangar next time mine is an R44.  His insurance is almost SIX times what I pay.

[0TreeLemur]

54 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Hangar next time mine is an R44.  His insurance is almost SIX times what I pay.

From my experiences in helicopters, that's about right.

[DXB]

5 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

We'll see.  There's a new carrier coming on in full force in Q1 that should keep some downward pressure on rates.

Great news to hear that prices have risen to the point that someone sees competitive opportunity in bringing them down!

[Eight8Victor]

Renewal came in at $3000 for $110,000 hull value. 56 yo non instrument pilot. Roughly 1200 hours, 600 in type. I’m not going to complain. The dollar has lost considerable value. $3k is not what it was a year ago and certainly wont be worth $3000 US dollars next year.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Eight8Victor said:

The dollar has lost considerable value. $3k is not what it was a year ago and certainly wont be worth $3000 US dollars next year.

Please explain this to the finance people who print my paychecks . . . .

You will need to use short words and simple sentences.  

[ArtVandelay]

Renewal came in at $3000 for $110,000 hull value. 56 yo non instrument pilot. Roughly 1200 hours, 600 in type. I’m not going to complain. The dollar has lost considerable value. $3k is not what it was a year ago and certainly wont be worth $3000 US dollars next year.

That’s still about 3% of hull value…yikes.

[Pinecone]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

Please explain this to the finance people who print my paychecks . . . .

You will need to use short words and simple sentences.  

They still won't understand.

I am a Fed Gov employee.  Retirees and Social Security are getting an 8.7% increase due to increased cost of living.  Workers are getting "4.6%"

Except, Fed pay is Base plus Locality.  The pay raise is 4.1% on the Base and 0.5% on the Locality.  That is NOT a 4.6% overall pay increase.

 

[Eight8Victor]

51 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

They still won't understand.

I am a Fed Gov employee.  Retirees and Social Security are getting an 8.7% increase due to increased cost of living.  Workers are getting "4.6%"

Except, Fed pay is Base plus Locality.  The pay raise is 4.1% on the Base and 0.5% on the Locality.  That is NOT a 4.6% overall pay increase.

 

Time to launch a new crypto currency. Can call it Mooney. It's like money but with an extra "o". Should be able to take in a few billion by the end of the year.

[Parker_Woodruff]

12 hours ago, DXB said:

Great news to hear that prices have risen to the point that someone sees competitive opportunity in bringing them down!

I'm especially looking forward to it for our general liability (such as MSCs) and commercial use aircraft clients.  It has been a beating of a couple years.  It'll be nice to have good news for once.

[Shadrach]

13 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

I'm especially looking forward to it for our general liability (such as MSCs) and commercial use aircraft clients.  It has been a beating of a couple years.  It'll be nice to have good news for once.

Is the industry going to be hit yet again by the Dallas tragedy?  Is it in the same pool with the rest of us?  Are warbirds typically insured at full hull value?  How does one put a value on something like a B17?

[Parker_Woodruff]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

Is the industry going to be hit yet again by the Dallas tragedy?  Is it in the same pool with the rest of us?  Are warbirds typically insured at full hull value?  How does one put a value on something like a B17?

I don't know what the coverage limits are like for that account or whom could be considered a claimant.  I doubt it will have a major macro effect.