Insurance renewal shock

[MikeOH]

9 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

It's normally about 25-50% surcharge when you hit 4 equally experienced pilots.

@Parker_WoodruffThanks for quelling the 2X "info". Still, I don't understand how their risk increases??  Is there actuarial data that factually demonstrates higher risk?

[Parker_Woodruff]

1 hour ago, MikeOH said:

@Parker_WoodruffThanks for quelling the 2X "info". Still, I don't understand how their risk increases??  Is there actuarial data that factually demonstrates higher risk?

There is basically zero actuarial data in aviation insurance other than what's available through Nall or the FAA.

There are no aviation actuaries at aviation insurance companies.

It's literally a bunch of pilots trying to run an insurance underwriting company.

If all flights profiles are the same, 4 equally skilled pilots flying 50 hours each is just as risky, if not more, than 1 pilot flying 200 hours.

Also, the risk of a partner-to-partner claim exists when there are severability clauses.  In some cases, one partner can sue another partner in a covered loss, as opposed to a sole owner who can't sue himself and collect under the policy.

[Mooneymite]

Ouch!

Renewal quote for 2 planes.  No claims, etc.

"$2,671.00/year. Up $391,00 for same coverage."  USSIC

Ouch!

 

[amillet]

I was asked to make a short presentation at the local EAA chapter meeting Saturday on advantages/disadvantages of ownership in an LLC.  Insurance came up.  A fellow Mooney owner (octogenarian) reported increase from $2200 to $4600.  Two other attendees reported being defendants in pending personal injury / wrongful death lawsuits.  One had per person limits and wished he had purchased “smooth” coverage. The other was unable to get coverage at all for his experimental and was uninsured. Moral of the story:  have liability insurance with high limits.  

[Skates97]

On 6/16/2021 at 2:47 PM, Chris Briley said:

Quick Update - I connected with Parker at airspeedinsurance.com.  He delivered!  My premium decreased by ~13% while I increased my hull coverage by ~25%.  The process was super easy and fast.  If you don’t like your current broker, give Parker a call! 

Even if you like your current broker I would give Parker a call. He is straightforward, honest, and a pleasure to deal with. I checked in with him for my 2019 renewal and he advised me to just stay with my current broker. I checked in again for my 2020 renewal and switched over to Parker and Airspeed Insurance.

[Guest]

On 6/17/2021 at 11:58 AM, Parker_Woodruff said:

Thanks, Chris!  Now go hit 500 total time and you'll be looking good for next year.

Parker,

Is there anything stopping you from writing insurance policies in Canada?

Clarence

[Parker_Woodruff]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Parker,

Is there anything stopping you from writing insurance policies in Canada?

Clarence

Yes. We are not licensed in Canada. Doing that would be exceptionally complicated and compost prohibitive. At least…for now…I’m open to it given more resources. But I spend too much for 49 states plus DC as it is…

[carusoam]

@Parker_Woodruff

Looks like Siri has messed with your business plan…

Canada is often very ecology aware…

But… Compost prohibitive and insurance don’t usually go together…

-a-

[hammdo]

Except for price... some may use more colorful 'compost' to describe the pricing...

-Don

[RobertGary1]

On 6/17/2021 at 7:50 PM, Parker_Woodruff said:

There is basically zero actuarial data in aviation insurance other than what's available through Nall or the FAA.

There are no aviation actuaries at aviation insurance companies.

It's literally a bunch of pilots trying to run an insurance underwriting company.

If all flights profiles are the same, 4 equally skilled pilots flying 50 hours each is just as risky, if not more, than 1 pilot flying 200 hours.

Also, the risk of a partner-to-partner claim exists when there are severability clauses.  In some cases, one partner can sue another partner in a covered loss, as opposed to a sole owner who can't sue himself and collect under the policy.

In my personal experience having owned some secondary aircraft in partnerships. All ended up with bent aluminum. In one in 3 years we totaled 2 bonanzas in one group. There is always the lowest common denominator pilot. Different if it’s just 3 friends but once you get 4-5 you get the club mentality vs ownership.  

[RobertGary1]

I’m just getting into helicopter flying. I can tell you those guys are rolling on the floor laughing at fixed wing guys complaining about insurance. For the same Hull they’re paying more than triple the price of a fixed wing. 

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

I’m just getting into helicopter flying. I can tell you those guys are rolling on the floor laughing at fixed wing guys complaining about insurance. For the same Hull they’re paying more than triple the price of a fixed wing. 

Yeah, but whirly-birds have the accident record to justify the premiums!!!!

[N231BN]

Just renewed mine at same price as last year, $1,693 for 80k. A few years ago it was under 1k.

[ragedracer1977]

Just renewed mine. Twin Cessna. $5300 last year, 1mil/100.  This year? 1 mil smooth. $3700.  

I'm happy.

[KLRDMD]

8 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Just renewed mine. Twin Cessna. $5300 last year, 1mil/100.  This year? 1 mil smooth. $3700. I'm happy.

You've had that a year already? Time flies!

[ragedracer1977]

8 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

You've had that a year already? Time flies!

I flew it home July 13 last year! 

[KLRDMD]

Just now, ragedracer1977 said:

I flew it home July 13 last year! 

When did you do the AST course in relation to taking possession of the airplane? I'm scheduled for the three day initial with them in late December. I want to wait until after I have the avionics upgrade done before going.

[ragedracer1977]

15 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

When did you do the AST course in relation to taking possession of the airplane? I'm scheduled for the three day initial with them in late December. I want to wait until after I have the avionics upgrade done before going.

I did AST the three days before. I flew directly from AST to bring the plane home.  I actually did it again a few weeks ago. They have more Sims now and I think their training is even better!

[CPeterJr]

My broker said stay with the same company since they reward loyalty. Yeah, sure, until you pass a certain age. My policy was not renewed—3,400 hours, 2,450 hours in type, Instrument rated, C.A.P. pilot, feature articles in every major U.S.A. aviation magazine with most on some facet of safety, and never so much as a scratch or incident. Broker in essence said, better sell the Mooney. His secretary said, Try AVEMCO. I did, sending them  complete information on me and my Mooney. Got coverage, and at $150 less than I'd been paying, and first renewal dropped a few more bucks.

[chriscalandro]

On 6/15/2021 at 9:12 PM, N231BN said:

It doesn't have anything to do with hours, the more pilots that fly an airplane the higher the chance that one of them makes a mistake. Remember, half of us are below average. Hypothetically.

That’s not how statistics works. 
 

My C renewal was 1800 with an 85k hull. Down quite a bit from last year. 
 

my Glasair iii is 7500 with ground and liability only. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by chriscalandro

[kortopates]

3 hours ago, CPeterJr said:

My broker said stay with the same company since they reward loyalty. Yeah, sure, until you pass a certain age. My policy was not renewed—3,400 hours, 2,450 hours in type, Instrument rated, C.A.P. pilot, feature articles in every major U.S.A. aviation magazine with most on some facet of safety, and never so much as a scratch or incident. Broker in essence said, better sell the Mooney. His secretary said, Try AVEMCO. I did, sending them  complete information on me and my Mooney. Got coverage, and at $150 less than I'd been paying, and first renewal dropped a few more bucks.

Sorry to read this, Would you mind mentioning the Underwriter and their age limit?

I would assume given your not a young guy that you most likely had better coverage than what Avemco will provide with smooth limits; rather than per person. If so definitely should be seeing a discount.

[carusoam]

Doctors have been measuring cognitive skills and capacities and memory and attention spans for years…

Sure… some skills Decline naturally… 

Often… some skills get maintained by using them… long past the age of 80…

It might be an expensive hour with the good cognitive doctor and his iPad….

But it would be better than guessing that we are all not capable after 80…. 
 

I’d bet the insurance companies would rather have us buying insurance when we can demonstrate our cognitive abilities with the proper doctor…

 

Do we know of any flying Neurologists? 
 

The objective is to keep people flying…. Not find the young guy that can’t operate an iPad…

PP thoughts only, not a brain doctor….

Best regards,

-a-

[jetdriven]

On 7/10/2021 at 12:18 AM, ragedracer1977 said:

Just renewed mine. Twin Cessna. $5300 last year, 1mil/100.  This year? 1 mil smooth. $3700.  

I'm happy.

We could not even get 1 million smooth on a lowly 201.  And we’re paying what you pay besides.  

[Mooneymite]

Just got this from my broker after 51 years, 33,000+ hours of military, commercial, fractional, general aviation flying.  No incidents/accidents/claims.  Last year's increase was over $300.  This year, $470 increase.

Based on the number of hours I fly, insurance 8s my highest cost per hour.

Your current Underwriter, USSIC came back with the Best Premium. $3141.00. Up $470.00. Experimental biplane increase by $132.00 & Mooney  Increased by $338.00.

[SkepticalJohn]

Just renewed the Rocket insurance, down ~$50 from last year. Same coverage, still similar ratings and ~8k total hours in just over 28 years, obviously a year older @ 43. Hopefully next year is similar.