Second G5 and GFC 500 Installed

[dzeleski]

Got 0TF back from its major surgery yesterday. I've flown behind a GFC500 before but having it in my own airplane is just amazing. AP was on rails throughout the entire flight test, having the YD and pitch trim is wonderful. Getting used to having electric trim is going to take some getting used to instead of reaching for the wheel.

I yanked out the vacuum system and the old STEC30, my avionics shop ran into a few minor issues along the way due to this being there first J model with a GFC but otherwise went well. If anyone is on the fence about doing something like this I highly recommend doing it.

My IFD440 works perfectly with the GFC and G5s, the only feature that doesnt work is VNAV but considering that does not work with the GNS series its not that big of a deal anyways.

Just need to fully learn this system and get my IR wrapped up!

[carusoam]

Great pics of the GFC install dzel!

Fantastic instruments for IR flight.

Now you have to get used to failing the new equipment to train/test your new IR skills... 

Best regards,

-a-

[OR75]

Ok ... no one brought that up .... I want to know what that “go around” switch does 

[toto]

1 hour ago, OR75 said:

Ok ... no one brought that up .... I want to know what that “go around” switch does 

It's not all that exciting in our planes without autothrottles

The "go around" button basically throws you into attitude mode with a slight pitch up. The autopilot is still engaged, but you need to clean up manually and add power. 

[dzeleski]

6 minutes ago, toto said:

It's not all that exciting in our planes without autothrottles

The "go around" button basically throws you into attitude mode with a slight pitch up. The autopilot is still engaged, but you need to clean up manually and add power. 

Correct. I believe it also triggers the IFD to fly the missed as well.

You can also use it for take off as well. It sets a nose up 7.5 degree attitude with the flight director set to whatever mode you have pre configured before taking off.

[dzeleski]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Great pics of the GFC install dzel!

Fantastic instruments for IR flight.

Now you have to get used to failing the new equipment to train/test your new IR skills... 

Best regards,

-a-

Double edged sword. Safer airplane overall, more things to break, and more things to be tested on. Personally though I’d rather learn on the equipment I’m gonna fly with so if it takes a little longer it’s all good.

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, OR75 said:

Ok ... no one brought that up .... I want to know what that “go around” switch does 

 

40 minutes ago, toto said:

It's not all that exciting in our planes without autothrottles

The "go around" button basically throws you into attitude mode with a slight pitch up. The autopilot is still engaged, but you need to clean up manually and add power. 

It will also roll wings level. On an approach if you are going missed hit the go around button and add power and clean up the plane like @toto said. On your GPS you will have the option to unsuspend the approach or leave it suspended. If you are going to be flying the missed approach procedure then hit unsuspend and the GFC500 will fly the missed approach including the hold. If you were given instructions to fly a vector after going missed (which often happens around here) then leave it suspended and dial the heading in and press the HDG button. Set your altitude pre-select and you are on your way.

[MIm20c]

I’m curious how this is a legal install? Did something change that the IFD is certified to use with the gfc?  I might need to visit the shop and see if they’ll put a gfc in my ‘63 C. 

[OR75]

36 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

I’m curious how this is a legal install? Did something change that the IFD is certified to use with the gfc?  I might need to visit the shop and see if they’ll put a gfc in my ‘63 C. 

Why wouldn’t it be if you get the paper TSOed signal ?

[dzeleski]

19 hours ago, MIm20c said:

I’m curious how this is a legal install? Did something change that the IFD is certified to use with the gfc?  I might need to visit the shop and see if they’ll put a gfc in my ‘63 C. 

The IFD is a legal 1:1 replacement of a GNS navigator. The GFC is compatible with the GNS series nav, therefore it’s a legal install. 

[toto]

2 hours ago, dzeleski said:

The IFD is a legal 1:1 replacement of a GNS navigator. The GFC is compatible with the GNS series nav, therefore it’s a legal install. 

There has been some debate about the legality of the IFD->GFC setup, because the Garmin STC install manual specifically lists only Gamin navigators. 

Some discussion in MS threads as well as on the Avidyne forums, e.g.,

http://forums.avidyne.com/g5-gfc500-with-ifd-series_topic2083.html

[PT20J]

If you have a GNS 430W and install the GFC 500 it’s no problem.

If you later replace the GNS 430W with an IFD 440, that’s considered a minor alteration. 

So, what could be wrong with installing a GFC 500 in an airplane with an existing IFD? It can’t be legal or illegal depending on the order of installations if you end up with the same configuration either way.

If your installer signs it off, no one will care. If they won’t, you could get a field approval.

[dzeleski]

3 hours ago, toto said:

There has been some debate about the legality of the IFD->GFC setup, because the Garmin STC install manual specifically lists only Gamin navigators. 

Some discussion in MS threads as well as on the Avidyne forums, e.g.,

http://forums.avidyne.com/g5-gfc500-with-ifd-series_topic2083.html

Which means it’s legal because the IFD is a legal replacement of the GNS. People can bicker on the internet as much as they want. It’s a legal install that many people have, probably in the thousands. If there was a legal problem with this install we would have heard about it by now.

[ZuluZulu]

On 6/3/2021 at 7:28 AM, dzeleski said:

Got 0TF back from its major surgery yesterday. I've flown behind a GFC500 before but having it in my own airplane is just amazing. AP was on rails throughout the entire flight test, having the YD and pitch trim is wonderful. Getting used to having electric trim is going to take some getting used to instead of reaching for the wheel.

I yanked out the vacuum system and the old STEC30, my avionics shop ran into a few minor issues along the way due to this being there first J model with a GFC but otherwise went well. If anyone is on the fence about doing something like this I highly recommend doing it.

My IFD440 works perfectly with the GFC and G5s, the only feature that doesnt work is VNAV but considering that does not work with the GNS series its not that big of a deal anyways.

Just need to fully learn this system and get my IR wrapped up!

Next up: getting rid of those old power-hungry strobes for LED! 

[toto]

52 minutes ago, dzeleski said:

Which means it’s legal because the IFD is a legal replacement of the GNS. People can bicker on the internet as much as they want. It’s a legal install that many people have, probably in the thousands. If there was a legal problem with this install we would have heard about it by now.

I have no experience with the Avidyne product, and I didn't mean to express any opinion about whether it's legal per the STC. I meant only to point out that people have gotten conflicting opinions from their installers and it has led to some discussion on MS and on the Avidyne community board. 

 

 

 

[carusoam]

The discussions of this sort are always going to be a challenge...

As the list of compatible devices is ever evolving...

What works for a navigator and is legal can be extra challenging to discover...

And if anyone can remember all of this and not work in an avionics shop...  that would be impressive memory talents...

 

Fortunately we have MSers that have done this properly and share their experience...

And we have avionics installers that really know their stuff...

Some MSers really know their stuff, and have really good writing skills...

 

PP thoughts only, just working on my writing skills...

Best regards,

-a-

[dzeleski]

On 6/5/2021 at 10:57 PM, ZuluZulu said:

Next up: getting rid of those old power-hungry strobes for LED! 

Any recommendations? 

[MIm20c]

On 6/5/2021 at 10:02 PM, dzeleski said:

Which means it’s legal because the IFD is a legal replacement of the GNS. People can bicker on the internet as much as they want. It’s a legal install that many people have, probably in the thousands. If there was a legal problem with this install we would have heard about it by now.

  I’ve never seen one in the wild that a Garmin dealer installed.  Do I think it will be an excellent combo, yes!  When and if Avidyne does the work to approve the combo which is why I originally asked if that had occurred without my knowledge. 
 

Edit:  looks like there are some individuals out there making the combo work. Avidyne I guess has a notation in the certification that approves it for all things a GNS is approved for.  Great!

[dzeleski]

24 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

With the thousands of installs that combine an IFD as the sole gps/nav and a gfc500 can you please link one?  I’ve never seen one in the wild that a Garmin dealer installed.  Do I think it will be an excellent combo, yes!  When and if Avidyne does the work to approve the combo which is why I originally asked if that had occurred without my knowledge. 

My Garmin dealer did mine. Islip Avionics at ISP. They had zero issues doing this since the IFD is GNS compatible. Avidyne has already approved the IFD to be a slide in minor alteration to a GNS and its also approved to work with the G5s, there is nothing else to approve.

http://forums.avidyne.com/g3x-gfc-500-and-an-ifd-540_topic1884.html

[ZuluZulu]

9 hours ago, dzeleski said:

Any recommendations? 

I bought mine from @OSUAV8TER!

[OSUAV8TER]

12 hours ago, dzeleski said:

Any recommendations? 

I know a guy...

[dzeleski]

1 hour ago, OSUAV8TER said:

I know a guy...

I’ll PM you

[Greg Ellis]

On 6/5/2021 at 8:23 PM, PT20J said:

If you have a GNS 430W and install the GFC 500 it’s no problem.

If you later replace the GNS 430W with an IFD 440, that’s considered a minor alteration. 

So, what could be wrong with installing a GFC 500 in an airplane with an existing IFD? It can’t be legal or illegal depending on the order of installations if you end up with the same configuration either way.

If your installer signs it off, no one will care. If they won’t, you could get a field approval.

So, have your installer slide out your IFD 540/440.  Slide in an old GNS 530/430 that he keeps on the shelf for just this reason, install the autopilot, then remove the GNS 530 and reinstall your IFD as a minor alteration.  Problem solved....  I say this jokingly of course.....

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Greg Ellis said:

So, have your installer slide out your IFD 540/440.  Slide in an old GNS 530/430 that he keeps on the shelf for just this reason, install the autopilot, then remove the GNS 530 and reinstall your IFD as a minor alteration.  Problem solved....  I say this jokingly of course.....

I think you make the point perfectly. 

[carusoam]

There is probably an avionics phrase that describes how to do this without actually going through the effort of doing it...

And stay legal at the same time...

It probably uses words like hence and forthwith... 

And probably is written by a competitor to big G...

Best regards,

-a-