Jack46 Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 In his article in the May Mapa Log, Richard Simile says, "Never CROSS CONTROL an Mooney during a normal landing or anytime really." The POH for my 1988 "J", says to slip into the wind keeping the plane aligned with the runway. These two statements seem contradictory. What do you all think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201Steve Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 I’ve always heard, and from my own experience, that they cross control just fine. I don’t know who Ralph Simile is, but There has been some lack luster writing in that last couple issues IMO. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, Jack46 said: In his article in the May Mapa Log, Richard Simile says, "Never CROSS CONTROL an Mooney during a normal landing or anytime really." The POH for my 1988 "J", says to slip into the wind keeping the plane aligned with the runway. These two statements seem contradictory. What do you all think? Not sure who this guy is but if that is what he says he is wrong. -Robert, cfii. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 I do forward slips and side slips in my 201 up to full deflection for 10 years and never seen even the slightest hiccup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-SLOT Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 Unless the wind is totally calm or right down the runway, there is always some degree of aileron input to keep you from drifting and rudder to keep the nose pointed correctly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 I've slipped mine at or near full deflection as well with no issues. Works well to lose altitude in a pinch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 Richard Simile was a Premier sales guy for a long time. He knows a lot about Mooneys and how to fly them. Slipping a long body with full flaps can blank out the tail, causing the nose to drop. It's not a problem with short and mid-bodies. But to land in a crosswind, a slip is required. Wing down into the wind, rudder for runway alignment isn't cross-control--that's full aileron one way and rudder the other way, generally to lose altitude rapidly without picking up lots of speed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mufflerbearing Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 I have slipped my plane for an instructor to show that it can be done, then again, I have not done it with full flaps. Having speed brakes cancels any need for plane slipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 26 minutes ago, Mufflerbearing said: I have slipped my plane for an instructor to show that it can be done, then again, I have not done it with full flaps. Having speed brakes cancels any need for plane slipping. Didn’t know you could control each speed brake separately to correct for crosswind. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Hank said: Richard Simile was a ... sales guy ... He knows a lot If you say so I'll keep slipping my Mooney, thank you very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, MikeOH said: If you say so I'll keep slipping my Mooney, thank you very much! Go-ahead, I do too. We don't fly long bodies . . . . Even Bob Kromer warns against slipping long bodies with full flaps, but there's nothing wrong with a crosswind landing slip. I never can remember which is a sideslip versus forward slip. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hank said: I never can remember which is a sideslip versus forward slip. Me neither but who cares which is called which? Both accomplish the plane tracking straight down the runway. That’s why it’s kind of funny they have different names. Edited May 23, 2021 by 201er 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 Come hang out with Richard Simile... I spent some time with him at Mooney Summit... Great discussions, no typing required.... Expect to find some mis-understanding somewhere... if you heard don’t use a slip or skid with your short body or mid body Mooney... you probably mis-heard something.... If you heard stomping on the rudder pedals is OK... or slipping off the rudder pedals is OK.... Know that there is a better way... The speed of entry and exit to/from a slip can be important... Of course... it is really helpful to know when discussing slips with a long body... when and why they are not recommended... Full flaps, near the ground, surely needs some thought, before use.... Old News.... Long body geometry puts their tail feathers in a position to be blocked by the airflow coming by the fully extended flaps.... To avoid tail stalls... avoid strong slips that are usually used to dump energy.... Hmmm... hitting the brakes and losing altitude... using a slip... basic flight maneuvers in all Mooneys.... For Long Bodies... they all got Speed Brakes, so hitting the brakes is less (?) elegant... push the button, maintain attitude, slow nicely.... or descend quicker. Still takes some pilot skills.... The cool thing about Speed brakes... passengers aren’t freaked out when you deploy them.... Full slip, and SIC is suddenly looking forward out their side window.... that can be a bit freaky for some... Simple affect of geometry... somebody decided to make the LB longer than the other Mooneys.... Lets say you are in an emergency descent... Gear down Speed brakes deployed Power out Prop full forward Speed adjusted Vle.... Descending about 6k’pm.... Would you add a slip to the mix.... maybe get another 1k’pm? This probably would not apply for a stabilized approach.... But, in an E-descent... you will be on the ground in a couple minutes.... PP thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exM20K Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 Richard is a great guy who was part of the old Mooney mailing list in the 90’s before having anything to do with aircraft sales. He is probably referring to this. Of course landing in a crosswind requires uncoordinated flight, but it is very mild as compared to a hard, gotta lose altitude slip. 201’s probably less prone to this than 231’s with the heavier engine making the tail work harder. -Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 Hmmm... Asymmetric Speed brake deployment.... vs. rudder control.... The rudder would be preferred.... for efficiency. The Speed brakes are mounted pretty close to the fuel tank end.... The asymmetric lift cancellation isn’t that noticeable at pattern speeds.... Speed brakes are less affective the closer you get to traffic pattern speeds... If you were hoping to get aerodynamic braking like a parachute... Go Mooney! Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 Speed brakes are not deployed separately. One control for both. If they come out asymmetricaly something is wrong with them. slips induce drag speed brakes induce drag. they both slow a plane down but they are very different. before I had speed brakes installed in my 231 based Rocket I used a slip to increase my descent rate. after the speed brakes were installed I used them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, RJBrown said: Speed brakes are not deployed separately. Depends on how worn out their clutches are... The worn clutch side fails to deploy... they didn’t wear exactly evenly on my O... Both got OH’d at the same time afterwards... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immelman Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 Richard who??? Sorry, don't agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 I slip sometimes, but if I do it’s because I came in too high, so it’s not usually intentional. ‘I’m going out on a limb a and going to guess he’s saying don’t touch down in a slip? As we don’t have down locks I believe you could collapse a gear if you do. Some aircraft it’s OK to touch down not aligned with the runway, coming from so much tail wheel time I couldn’t bring myself to do that though. Is there a prohibition of no slips with flaps like some Cessna’s in the POH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 40 minutes ago, carusoam said: Depends on how worn out their clutches are... The worn clutch side fails to deploy... they didn’t wear exactly evenly on my O... Both got OH’d at the same time afterwards... Best regards, -a- Your critical thinking is lacking. Re read my post. one button deploys both brakes. if both brakes don’t deploy when that one button is pushed “something is wrong with them” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 RJ, You’re the best! Best regards, -a- 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 I was taught Forward Slips are for loosing altitude while not gaining much airspeed and Side Slips are for keeping ground track and aircraft alignment while landing with a X-wind. There are a lot of aircraft that advise against Slips with full flaps because the tail stalls. Generally as the X-wind increases (angle and/or speed) the less flaps I use, when using a Forward Slip to loose altitude I start with full rudder deflection then aileron for track but for Side slips I start with aileron and enough rudder to keep the aircraft aligned with the runway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 I guess you could theoretically unport your fuel pickup on the inboard side of the slip if you didn’t have a lot of gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 I'm getting to old to slip. If I slip now, I'd probably break something... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 11 hours ago, bradp said: I guess you could theoretically unport your fuel pickup on the inboard side of the slip if you didn’t have a lot of gas. That’s the C-140, it will do that with a 1/4 tank, but it only has one fuel pickup, I think many more modern aircraft have two per tank, does the Mooney? Only aircraft I’m aware of that prohibits slips with flaps is the Fowler equipped Cessna’s, the 140 with its plain flaps has no such prohibition. I’d be surprised if a Mooney with its low wing, high mounted stab and plain flaps would have a prohibition of no slips with flaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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