will1874 Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 As I continue towards my first airplane purchase, I have decided that the single item I will not do without is a digital engine monitor. Let's say the airplane I buy is within 200 hours of TBO. Should I install the engine monitor, watch how it performs, and wait to overhaul on condition / performance? Or, just overhaul and install the engine monitor at the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, will1874 said: As I continue towards my first airplane purchase, I have decided that the single item I will not do without is a digital engine monitor. Let's say the airplane I buy is within 200 hours of TBO. Should I install the engine monitor, watch how it performs, and wait to overhaul on condition / performance? Or, just overhaul and install the engine monitor at the same time? An engine monitor will tell you little about the engine bottom end, just the top end, so it generally won't help much on the decision to overhaul. A non-primary engine monitor installation is not going to be horribly expensive (well, relatively), having the engine in place doesn't make it too much more difficult. A primary installation might be a little easier with the engine off, not terribly sure about that though. Either way, I suspect there's little advantage to waiting for an overhaul to put in a monitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 An engine monitor will tell you little about the engine bottom end, just the top end, so it generally won't help much on the decision to overhaul.Not necessarily. I used my engine monitor to diagnose a bad cam node. But you need historical data to have a baseline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 5 hours ago, will1874 said: As I continue towards my first airplane purchase, I have decided that the single item I will not do without is a digital engine monitor. Let's say the airplane I buy is within 200 hours of TBO. Should I install the engine monitor, watch how it performs, and wait to overhaul on condition / performance? Or, just overhaul and install the engine monitor at the same time? I like your way of thinking. The engine monitor will certainly give you more information than not having an engine monitor. I would separate the two decisions. Go ahead and install the engine monitor. And I don't think the engine on or off makes any difference. Get a Primary engine monitor and then remove the factory gauges. The two sets of gauges will never agree and you'll always wonder which is correct. So go with a Primary engine monitor so you can get rid of the original gauges. Now that that's done... decide what to do about the engine. If it's running well, has good compressions, and isn't using too much oil, just keep flying it. Be sure to open an account on SavvyAnalysis and log the data from the engine monitor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor_U Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 I agree with Paul's opinion above: Go with Primary engine monitor, remove the old gages as this will take the old fuel and oil lines out of the cockpit, you'll gain some useful load and get opportunity to cleanup the RHS panel and spend more money. What plane (budget?) are you looking to buy? Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 +1 for go with the engine monitor now... The dollars saved by weighting.... Won’t make any sense if something goes wrong with the engine... I am slightly biased in this arena... My old M20C stuck a valve on departure in my first 10hours of ownership.... An engine monitor would have been helpful understanding options for the next steps.... If you are new to engine monitors... it can be difficult to get all of the value immediately... PP thoughts only... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 So economics. A JPI 930 primary with tank gauges is $6200. A basic Dynon with 7" screen and D10A back up with Engine Monitoring =$13800. So you got primary 6 pack and engine monitor and back up instrument (D10A) for just over double the cost of engine monitor. And if you have to add ADSB it is just a bit more. Same for COM radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 Brice just got back from an engine seminar held at the RAM overhaul facility. He said they have data going back many years. Their conclusion was that the advent of engine monitors had zero effect on the longevity of their engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 Brice just got back from an engine seminar held at the RAM overhaul facility. He said they have data going back many years. Their conclusion was that the advent of engine monitors had zero effect on the longevity of their engines.They may not increase longevity but if two owners go into a shop:First owner says I have what appears to be a misfiring plug on cylinder #4, the second tells them his engine doesn’t sound right...which one will get out quickly and less expensively? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerostarDriver Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 10 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said: They may not increase longevity but if two owners go into a shop: First owner says I have what appears to be a misfiring plug on cylinder #4, the second tells them his engine doesn’t sound right...which one will get out quickly and less expensively? I ran in to this literally just the other day. This past Saturday, I was flying back on the last leg of a flight, I had a 2 inch drop of manifold pressure in cruise followed by intense engine roughness. Look to the engine monitor, #1 Normal (29X CHT, 14XX EGT), #2 Normal (29X CHT, 14XX EGT), #3 Climbing (397 CHT, 1550 EGT), #4 Normal (29X CHT, 14XX EGT). Quickly looked outside for options, 60 foot pines as far as the eye can see. The engine monitor allowed me to safely work the problem. After landing, I knew it was cylinder #3 and I suspected due to the rise in temperature and the way it behaved with changes in mixture that it was a fuel related problem. Pulled the injector and found it to be clogged, which lead to this post Clogged injectors, amber colored particulate in fuel, no tank leaks - Vintage Mooneys (pre-J models) - Mooneyspace.com - A community for Mooney aircraft owners and enthusiasts I would say an engine monitor is a MUST HAVE on a new to you airplane that you may not trust. It also makes it far easier to diagnose issues that pop up that with out it you may spend weeks or months chasing. Will it make your engine last longer? Its debatable, but it will help you make more informed decisions about how you operate your engine and may prevent your engine from becoming an outlier. In short, find a good airplane, if it has an engine monitor, great. If it doesn't have one, just spend the money and install a primary. I am partial to the CGR-30 and GI-275 EIS but that is a different story. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 (edited) When I was ferrying a 310 from Chicago to Phoenix last month, I would have been happy to have a functioning CHT and EGT gauge on the right engine. That's the left engine in my icon, it feathered every time I landed, except the last landing, I didn't push the props to high RPM on my last landing and it didn't feather. Edited May 18, 2021 by N201MKTurbo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 Great pic Rich! Thanks for the explanation... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 On 5/13/2021 at 6:08 PM, ArtVandelay said: Not necessarily. I used my engine monitor to diagnose a bad cam node. But you need historical data to have a baseline. how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 Everybody on this site says engine monitor engine monitor engine monitor. Sure I'd love one. Then again, I've love lots of things, but. they all cost money I haven't got. The engine in my airplane or one just like it has been banging around for the last 60 years. What crucially important thing is this engine monitor going to tell me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 how?Bad intake node (intake nodes are shared), 3&4 ran much richer than 1&2, gami spread was over 1 gph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 Everybody on this site says engine monitor engine monitor engine monitor. Sure I'd love one. Then again, I've love lots of things, but. they all cost money I haven't got. The engine in my airplane or one just like it has been banging around for the last 60 years. What crucially important thing is this engine monitor going to tell me?Bad cam, bad plug, bad magneto, plugged injectors, bad fuel pump, low oil pressure, excellent fuel metering, detonation, etc 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 16 hours ago, steingar said: Everybody on this site says engine monitor engine monitor engine monitor. Sure I'd love one. Then again, I've love lots of things, but. they all cost money I haven't got. The engine in my airplane or one just like it has been banging around for the last 60 years. What crucially important thing is this engine monitor going to tell me? You can fly like it’s 1960... without proper seat belts... Or... when able... Add the things that make sense for you... There are plenty of advantages to having instruments... My M20C sufffered from having too few... Having carb temp sensor would have solved one inflight problem I had... Having four EGTs instead of one would have solved another flight problem I had... Having four CHTs would have helped me manage the engine better than what I did for a decade... If I had an engine monitor...my engine would have lasted longer.... and cost less to operate... I would bet... an engine monitor can pay for itself over a decade of use... Most often, long before the decade is out.... Every run-up can be more meaningful if you look at the data... My stuck valve would have been caught, long before it jammed, extended into the cylinder... Flying with a bent valve would have been more visible with an engine monitor.... that’s a flight I would like to have known not to take... The stuck valve loosened itself up after it got damaged... everything seemed right again... So... If you want an engine monitor... there are plenty of ways to get one lately... pre-flown makes an excellent low cost opportunity... If you don’t want one... that’s OK too... But, definitely get the updated seat belts.... Its not 1960 anymore... we are not stuck in the old millennium... if we don’t want to be. There are always going to be financial challenges...and priorities... PP thoughts only... Best regards, -a- 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 21 hours ago, ArtVandelay said: Bad cam, bad plug, bad magneto, plugged injectors, bad fuel pump, low oil pressure, excellent fuel metering, detonation, etc If you really need an engine monitor to notice these things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 If you really need an engine monitor to notice these things...I need the engine monitor to tell the difference...beats trial and error maintenance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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