182, SR-20, or a M20R

[Gordon Freeman]

Allow me to introduce myself.  A relatively new pilot (130hrs).  I got my PPL last year, and have my IFR checkride scheduled for next week.  

I am looking to fly on a regular basis, especially on spur-of-the-moment trips with my older 2 kids (10 and 12yo).   Local flying clubs have waiting lists, and the one club I did successfully join has a lengthy bureaucratic process to get me into a simple Arrow (30+ hours complex time, multiple checkouts, etc.).  I'm also not a big fan of their ancient avionics.  I trained on a G1000 and would love to stay that way.

I've been contemplating the purchase of a used SR-20, 182, or a Mooney M20R.  Year 2004 to 2010.  There seem to be a number of relatively low-hour models for sale in each model category.

 

I've spoken at length to SR-20 owners and 182 owners, but this would be my first time asking Mooney owners what type of ownership experience I can expect.

182 is obviously the slowest of the bunch, but has respectable climb rate (this would come in handy when flying out west in Colorado, etc.), and great useful load. 

SR-20 is the faster one, but I've heard complains of its less-than-stellar climb rate and takeoff performance in hot, high-altitude airport.  Thus far, the SR-20 is the lowest on my list.

Now, for the Mooney.  Since I've flown Microsoft Flight Simulator in 1994, the Mooney was the only single-engine piston that could actually get you to your destination in a respectable amount of time.

I would certainly want to log some complex and high performance time with a CFI before committing to a purchase, but with the aforementioned options, I would love it if some of you Mooney owners would weigh in with your opinions (which, I expect to be naturally biased :-)  Are there particular sticker-shock maintenance costs that I should be aware of?  I already know of the $18k cost to repack the ballistic chute on the SR-20, and I'd factor that into the fixed expenses.  Any particular ADs that certain model years suffer from that I should avoid when shopping?

While the plane would be owned by me, I would most likely structure the ownership (and insurance) and rent it to 4-5 local IFR-rated pilots to help me cover its cost of ownership.

The aircraft would most likely be tied-down at HPN (hangars here have a years-long waitlist and go for $1100/mo), and would be flown primarily throughout the northeast, and up and down the east coast.  

I'm assuming the aircraft performs better than an SR-22 at a slightly lower cost of ownership.  Would I be correct in this assumption?

Many thanks for all your input.  If I end-up being an owner/operator, I'll most likely be frequenting these forums on a regular basis.

[xavierde]

32 minutes ago, Gordon Freeman said:

Any particular ADs that certain model years suffer from that I should avoid when shopping?

 

I'm sure the G1000 owners will be more helpful on that topic but I believe a WAAS upgrade (if needed) is very expensive, if available at all for the early models.

[Mufflerbearing]

Several years ago, I was where you are now.  I studied, looked at forums, and learned all I could.  I came to the opinion that the Mooney Ovation series was the right plane for me.  It is the most economical to fly, it flies like my Porsche drives, and it is a serious traveling machine.  The Fiki is a must for me and this plane is an awesome IFR platform.  I spend a lot of time with track cars/race cars and I understand the value of the Mooney cage.  I also love the full spar wing.  I believe this is the best single piston engine plane made.

[ZuluZulu]

Wow those are three very different airplanes.  Have you defined your mission yet?  To have those three planes as your finalists, unless your mission is "own any airplane," the answer would have to be no.  It's like saying you've got your next car narrowed down to a used Honda Civic, a Land Rover Defender project, and a brand-new Ferrari, which should I get?  The answer: it depends what you're using it for.

And sorry to be blunt but are you sure you can afford this?  Planning to "rent it to 4-5 local IFR-rated pilots to help me cover its cost of ownership" does not sound like a great plan, in terms of insurance and just the experience of ownership.  That's basically an airplane rental business.  Are you sure that's what you want?  You might find a partnership on a more affordable airplane to be more palatable.

[anthonydesmet]

Need to define your mission first or you won’t be happy….

[Danb]

Hey Gordon ZZ makes a couple good points regarding rental of your plane versus getting a partnership in order to have an idea of your fixed costs plus those with an ownership piece most likely will treat the plane nicely. Secondly me was the vast difference in the planes compared to an SUV, smaller sedan and a Porsche.

Ive had a Bravo GX G1000 since 2005. Similar to the Ovation except for the turbo. I have WAAS and ADSB plus other improvements. As your looking for your plane be aware to find one with those items as ZZ mentioned. Other than finding one equipped as you desire pay strict attention to the past maintenance to determine if it was well and properly cared for.

Regarding flying characteristics all Mooney’s fly similar, pay attention to proper speeds to approach and landing all will be well, this is a reason to have good partners(s), they should learn how to fly a Mooney the other planes you mentioned are much more forgiving than our M’s. Mine being a long body as is the Ovation provides plenty of room for me my wife luggage and 120 gallons of fuels.

One can fly between 120-200 knots using 12-20 gallons an hour. You’ve got efficiency and speed and anywhere in between. My UL is 1040 many are between 900-1100 the Eagle being the highest.

My annuals approximate 4-7000, all 15 being done at Mooney service centers. Proper care and maintenance yields a good plane keeping up on the maintenance keeps the cost usually even.

Determine your needs then choose your type and need for partners. Since the G1000 has been out there are many other FMS choices from Garmin G500-600, G3x plus many other great systems comparable or better than the G1000 realize once the 1000 is chosen your stuck with it at the mercy of Mooney and Garmin. Choose wisely it could be one of your biggest lifetime purchases 

 

 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Gordon...

Tough news...

Long body Mooneys are not the best first planes for ownership...

Insurance companies are more than happy to explain this to you...

Involving several other people in the ownership... if this is for financial reasons... your insurance is going to be nuts...

 

Start by determining what your costs are going to be...   

For a good insurance guy who knows Mooneys look for Parker...

 

It is generally difficult to be low in experience and fly a high performance plane...

You CAN do it...  just know the reasons why the insurance companies make it a challenge...

Getting the IR in an LB or any Mooney... is the best!

Ask some tough questions...  One of the guys here got his Long Body first...  if you are like him... you could be very successful... 

Simple test to eliminate the other airframes...

Do you like Speed and Efficiency?

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Ragsf15e]

If you’re keeping a 2005ish Ovation (or 182 or SR20) outside in the northeast, and renting it to 4 or 5 people, you may not even find insurance that will accept you.  Even in a hangar by yourself, you might have trouble getting insurance in the Ovation or it might just be outrageous.  That decision is purely $$ though. Definitely check into the insurance aspect of this to fine tune your plan.

[StevenL757]

7 hours ago, Gordon Freeman said:

Allow me to introduce myself.  A relatively new pilot (130hrs).  I got my PPL last year, and have my IFR checkride scheduled for next week.  

I am looking to fly on a regular basis, especially on spur-of-the-moment trips with my older 2 kids (10 and 12yo).   Local flying clubs have waiting lists, and the one club I did successfully join has a lengthy bureaucratic process to get me into a simple Arrow (30+ hours complex time, multiple checkouts, etc.).  I'm also not a big fan of their ancient avionics.  I trained on a G1000 and would love to stay that way.

I've been contemplating the purchase of a used SR-20, 182, or a Mooney M20R.  Year 2004 to 2010.  There seem to be a number of relatively low-hour models for sale in each model category.

 

I've spoken at length to SR-20 owners and 182 owners, but this would be my first time asking Mooney owners what type of ownership experience I can expect.

182 is obviously the slowest of the bunch, but has respectable climb rate (this would come in handy when flying out west in Colorado, etc.), and great useful load. 

SR-20 is the faster one, but I've heard complains of its less-than-stellar climb rate and takeoff performance in hot, high-altitude airport.  Thus far, the SR-20 is the lowest on my list.

Now, for the Mooney.  Since I've flown Microsoft Flight Simulator in 1994, the Mooney was the only single-engine piston that could actually get you to your destination in a respectable amount of time.

I would certainly want to log some complex and high performance time with a CFI before committing to a purchase, but with the aforementioned options, I would love it if some of you Mooney owners would weigh in with your opinions (which, I expect to be naturally biased :-)  Are there particular sticker-shock maintenance costs that I should be aware of?  I already know of the $18k cost to repack the ballistic chute on the SR-20, and I'd factor that into the fixed expenses.  Any particular ADs that certain model years suffer from that I should avoid when shopping?

While the plane would be owned by me, I would most likely structure the ownership (and insurance) and rent it to 4-5 local IFR-rated pilots to help me cover its cost of ownership.

The aircraft would most likely be tied-down at HPN (hangars here have a years-long waitlist and go for $1100/mo), and would be flown primarily throughout the northeast, and up and down the east coast.  

I'm assuming the aircraft performs better than an SR-22 at a slightly lower cost of ownership.  Would I be correct in this assumption?

Many thanks for all your input.  If I end-up being an owner/operator, I'll most likely be frequenting these forums on a regular basis.

You really can’t compare the Ovation to the 182.  And the comparison between a Cirrus and an Ovation is only slightly closer.  Although the latter two share a similar powerplant, they’re two very different machines.  Although my useful load less than the other two mine is 1007 pounds), I still have over 1100-mile range capability on average with legal bingo gas assuming nil wind.

Given the advent of newer cockpit tech, and unless you invest in a airplane having a G1000NXi cockpit, the legacy G1000 is inferior in many ways to a GTN750Xi/650Xi/G500TXi cockpit.  Having flown all three, although the NXi is great, I’ll take the 500TXi with GTN navigators any day, and twice on Sundays.

Having flown 41 different types over almost 36 years, I consider my Ovation to be the best single-engines IFR platform there is.  My dispatch rate is extremely high versus a non de-ice equipped model.  I fly year-round from Maine to Texas, to Florida and the Midwest, as well as small local trips, and can get the airplane into 2000-foot strips easily.  No parachute to mess with.  The only AD I have is the paper air induction filter, which only needs replacing at very sparse intervals.  Replacement cost of the filter, if needed, is around $250 including labor.

If you’re seriously considering an Ovation, I’d think twice about tying down a potentially $250k+/- airplane year-round in the NE.  I’ve seen a couple of Ovations that have spent a large majority of their life outside…some much newer than mine…and they look absolutely horrible.  I suggest you work on getting a hangar first, and then purchasing an airplane to go in it.  I’d also reconsider the thought you have about renting it to even one person, much less 5 or 6.  An Ovation typically isn’t an airplane one rents, or “shares” with anyone.  Personally, I have far too much invested in mine to consider that idea, and I can only imagine other “R” owners think similarly.  If you plan on owning one, sharing or renting simply opens Pandora’s Box, as you’ll likely be chasing issues that your renters/borrowers cause.  If you have to split costs that many ways to afford one, you need to be looking at a cheaper airplane that you CAN afford.  Just honest assessments from 11 years of ownership.  Let me know if this helps at all.

Steve

[dogbocks]

I bought a 2001 M20R O2 about a year ago. I was also cross-shopping with a G1000 182. I went for the M20R since it was much cheaper (my O2 is not a DX G1000). I made that decision since I regularly fly a 710NM route and didn't want to have to make fuel stops and do it as fast as possible. Also I needed performance for the Sierras, which they both have and I could get a FIKI M20R. While FIKI 182s exist they are very rare. 

Since you asked for numbers: My O2 with 3-blade, 280hp and FIKI goes 170 TAS. Best between 6k-10k, but can go as high as you need. Without FIKI and a 2 blade people get 180-185 TAS. My 710NM trip takes about 4 hours and a few minutes wheels up to wheels down (in calm wind). I land with about 30 gallons of fuel still. 

When I bought it I only had a few hours high performance/complex from getting my endorsements. I did own a non-complex airplane at the time though. My insurance quote for the first year with 0 M20R hours was about $6k. This year with 135 hours in it its about $3k. 

In the first year I probably spent over $30k additionally on what I thought was a very clean "turn-key" airplane. Some avionics issues, replaced the HSI for $8k, bad autopilot roll servo $8K, new motor mounts $2k (common issue), all new LED lights to replace incandescent lights $6k, new carpet, 3 new tires.... Very extensive first annual $$$$.... so anyway, make sure you budget for that with any "new" complex airplane. 

I would really not count on leasing back a M20R as part of the plan. Once you learn to land a Long Body its easy, but random people with little to no experience will do damage. That would not be the case with a 182. Not sure about a SR20, never flown one. Also I would be surprised if your insurance would cover a lease back, I would guess not. Maybe the FBO's insurance would? 

Also I keep mine on the ramp since hangars here have 10+ year wait lists. No issues that any other airplane would have with that. I do live in California though where the wx is very mild. 

One thing that is undisputed: an M20R with a 3-blade is the best looking plane on the ramp, while 182s are about as vanilla as it gets 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by dogbocks

[Ibra]

7 hours ago, dogbocks said:

I would really not count on leasing back a M20R as part of the plan. Once you learn to land a Long Body its easy, but random people with little to no experience will do damage. That would not be the case with a 182

I can share a bit of that experience, I flew few types and instructed on load of them, I would be happy to rent C182 to any average joe who thinks it's flyable in 35kts winds to 1500ft grass with trees around (it should do more than that, maybe easiest aircraft to land in any conditions along with DA42/40)

In the other hand, I just started flying M20R, it does require attention, nothing fancy just tight ASI & VSI tolerances and heavy loaded with more go-around discipline, I have not tried yet landing in challenging crosswinds or short runways yet, but I doubt it's adequate for ad-hoc rental unless it's based in a place with two 10,000ft cross runways or flown by few current & experienced Mooney pilots (find 2 or 3 who are insurable) with Mooney minds: it's on landing where one may pay a large bill for the "Mooney cruise speed" not at the fuel pump 

SR20 would not be an ideal candidate compared to C182, no specific issues flying it, just lands fast and underpowered on takeoff and way too much ground roll for it's weight, also some pilots confuse it's load & weather capability for SR22...  

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Ibra

[GeeBee]

Good review of the SR-20 in this month's Aviation Consumer. In fact if you have a subscription, all these airplanes have been reviewed and are available on their website.

 

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

In 2005-2008 I occasionally rented a Mooney M20S (much like an Ovation).  It was great for me — the plane was always available as the insurance requirements for solo eliminated just about everyone. 
 

So, I suggest you make sure you can find insurable pilots before you factor rental into your plan. 

[PilotX]

Having owned an R182 and now a Bravo. They are night and day. What is your mission?

The R182 could be filled with four people, baggage and a respectable amount of fuel. Two pax and full fuel we could (usually) climb straight out over the pass ~12500. I look forward to me and my closest (proximity - purely a cabin width comparison) friend rubbing shoulders as we climb over the peaks, not just the passes in the Bravo. It won't be a four seat airplane for me as the R182 rarely had more than two people. Quite a bit slower, solid IFR platform but @carusoam and @Jerry 5TJ nailed the partnership aspect. Our R182 insurance was $2400 because we had one low-time, non-IR pilot. Before we added him it was $1025. Same partner got a quote on the Bravo ~$6600 so if you can afford insurance you are good to go, my rates for as a relatively-handsome ATP-rated pilot is $2100 but I attribute that to low Mooney time.

[CoffeeCan]

17 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

Wow those are three very different airplanes.  Have you defined your mission yet?  To have those three planes as your finalists, unless your mission is "own any airplane," the answer would have to be no.  It's like saying you've got your next car narrowed down to a used Honda Civic, a Land Rover Defender project, and a brand-new Ferrari, which should I get?  The answer: it depends what you're using it for.

And sorry to be blunt but are you sure you can afford this?  Planning to "rent it to 4-5 local IFR-rated pilots to help me cover its cost of ownership" does not sound like a great plan, in terms of insurance and just the experience of ownership.  That's basically an airplane rental business.  Are you sure that's what you want?  You might find a partnership on a more affordable airplane to be more palatable.

I agree whole heartedly, and I am not being unkind here. 

First job is to define your mission. For example, when I made my move “up” to a M20K/231, I had put a lot of thought into mission. First, I fly for business quite a lot, mostly intermediate distances (250-500 NM), and I needed an IFR capable airplane that could get me to these places expiditiously. Second consideration, my wife and I have 7 adult children between us in TX, NV, OK, WI, and NY, so we wanted a bird thar could take us there in reasonable times in comfort. We rarely have a third person on board, so big payload wasn’t a factor. Since 85% of my flying is way south, FIKI wasn’t a major consideration. But we vacation in mountains a lot, so high altitude performance was mandatory. With these considerations in mind, the Mooney 231, 252, and higher grade airplanes were tops on my list. 

You have already told us that you need high altitude performance, and your bird must be icing-capable at least, if not all out FIKI rated. I’m sorry, but the first knocks the SR-20 and 182 out right away. At the very least you need a turbo normalized engine, and frankly I’d not settle for anything less than a fully turbocharged engine. 

Also, and this isn’t a knock on you, you’re a pretty fresh new pilot. A high performance airplane is going to be a stretch for you. I had about 350 hours before buying my Mooney, and 200 of that was in complex aircraft. The step up to the workload-intense 231 presented challenges for me; enjoyable challenges, but I had to work to achieve what I consider a level of conscious competence as  M20K pilot. 
 

If I were in your shoes, I’d get a 182/182 RG, and put a solid 150-200 hours in it before moving up to a high performance and higher cost to operate airplane. 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by CoffeeCan

[MIm20c]

If my plan was to rent the plane to multiple individuals and let it sit outside in the elements I’d buy a 182.  It would also make a better platform if you kids want to start learning how to fly…it’s not a 172 but far easier than a long body. 

[ZuluZulu]

I think OP is long gone, guys...

[dzeleski]

As someone who bought a J at 78 hours TT. It was a decent amount of pressure and learning, not just flying but also the systems, as well as just learning how to own properly. Looking back im glad I didnt try and go into anything more complicated or faster. Things happen really fast the second you put that nose down for approach.

Mooneys are difficult to land, the gear will not cover up any mistakes like a 172 does. Any larger mistakes can cause serious damage as well. If I wanted to lease back or rent a plane it would never be a mooney.

As said already your "mission" and plane list do not make any sense. I think you need to go back to the drawing board and really think about what you plan on using this thing for 90% of the time. What do you need your dispatch rate to really be?

[carusoam]

22 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

I think OP is long gone, guys...

OP last visited only a few hours ago...

Stay positive...

Expect that the Mooney isn’t right for everyone...

It can take a lot of effort to make it right...  not everyone has that level of effort available...

Best regards,

-a-

[Gordon Freeman]

First off, thanks to everyone that took the time and effort to reply to my post.  I really value your time and expertise.

I can tell that this is a polarizing topic.  I didn't mean to come off as a new pilot looking to fast track his way into a Mooney.  The aircraft sits at the top of general aviation fleet, and is certainly a joy to fly for the few who are privileged enough to own one

On 5/11/2021 at 5:20 PM, xavierde said:

I'm sure the G1000 owners will be more helpful on that topic but I believe a WAAS upgrade (if needed) is very expensive

Ah, a worthy point. LPV approaches would certainly open-up the possibilities on those iffy weather days. Something to consider and factor into potential "upgrade" budget.

 

On 5/11/2021 at 5:23 PM, Mufflerbearing said:

I came to the opinion that the Mooney Ovation series was the right plane for me.  It is the most economical to fly, it flies like my Porsche drives, and it is a serious traveling machine.  The Fiki is a must for me and this plane is an awesome IFR platform.  I spend a lot of time with track cars/race cars and I understand the value of the Mooney cage.  I also love the full spar wing.  I believe this is the best single piston engine plane made.

Indeed!  I've been a gearhead since my teenage years, and seldom owned a vehicle (or a motorcycle) that I haven't modified (or troubleshot) in one way or another.  A day does not feel complete for me unless I've burned some gasoline!  It sounds like you're really enjoying yours.  In the end, a plane might be the most financially demanding purchase, but it's also very much an emotional one as well.

 

On 5/11/2021 at 5:30 PM, ZuluZulu said:

Wow those are three very different airplanes.  Have you defined your mission yet?

Well, that's one thing I've been hearing oftentimes from veteran GA pilots.  I don't know my mission well enough to define what it is.  It might be weekend trips with my 10 and 12 year-olds, it might be making quick trips up to Vermont and back.  We may purchase a weekend home in the Carolina - and if so - this would certainly get us there on our own schedule.  Yes, they are all different planes, but in many respects they're also quite similar:  They share a relatively similar useful load, performance and seating capacity. I'm certainly not comparing a multi-engine floatplane to a light-sport with a Rotax.  

 

On 5/11/2021 at 5:30 PM, ZuluZulu said:

And sorry to be blunt but are you sure you can afford this?

I haven't gotten to where I am in life without knowing a thing or two about fiscal responsibility.  However, just because I can afford it doesn't mean I need to be wasteful with it.  If I intend to fly once a week, and some of the unused days can be allocated to another Mooney-rated pilot who doesn't wish to commit himself to a purchase, then I see nothing wrong with sharing some of the expenses of ownership. There is a local pilot at HPN who purchased an SR-22, and has found 3 other PPL/IFR pilots who have taken Cirrus transition training (10hrs, as mandated by his insurance policy), and now rent his plane on a regular basis.  I don't intend to treat it like a Camry from AVIS, and just hand over the keys to anyone.  Personality, trust, and having the proper qualifications are a must.

 

On 5/11/2021 at 6:22 PM, Danb said:

My annuals approximate 4-7000, all 15 being done at Mooney service centers.

Thank you for sharing that.  I was budgeting about $4000/annum for maintenance of an SR-20, with an additional $3000 for inspection.  But a Mooney is a high-performance and complex aircraft, so adjusting for my region (one of the priciest in the country), I'd reckon it'd be closer to $10k/year.

 

20 hours ago, carusoam said:

Long body Mooneys are not the best first planes for ownership...

Insurance companies are more than happy to explain this to you...

Good point!  The quotes I've received from AVEMCO for a SR-20 that would be rented to other pilots (so long as they meet insurance-imposed requirements) was about $7200/annum.  I have yet to receive one for a Mooney.  

 

 

Part of me is beginning to realize that as some of you have noted, a Mooney may not be the best first plane.  I may very-well end-up going for the Skylane, owning it for 5-6 years and add experience and high-performance time to my logbook before upgrading to a set of wings that can hit FL240.  My goal was to get some initial impressions from fellow Mooney owners.  Thank you again for your insight.  

19 hours ago, dogbocks said:

In the first year I probably spent over $30k additionally on what I thought was a very clean "turn-key" airplane. Some avionics issues, replaced the HSI for $8k, bad autopilot roll servo $8K, new motor mounts $2k (common issue), all new LED lights to replace incandescent lights $6k, new carpet, 3 new tires.... Very extensive first annual $$$$.... so anyway, make sure you budget for that with any "new" complex airplane. 

Do you think some of those issues could have been resolved by a more thorough pre-purchase inspection?  Potentially giving you some wiggle room in negotiating the final price?  $30k  in the first year is some serious coin to drop on non-essentials!

 

19 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

Having flown 41 different types over almost 36 years, I consider my Ovation to be the best single-engines IFR platform there is.  My dispatch rate is extremely high versus a non de-ice equipped model.

That statement carries a lot of weight.  Perhaps it's better I re-evaluate my goals in trying to shoot for the very top GA aircraft and get there step-by-step.  Thanks for sharing.

 

19 hours ago, dogbocks said:

Also I keep mine on the ramp since hangars here have 10+ year wait lists.

This.  There are dozens of private-jet owners at HPN who are waiting for hangars.  I'd sure like to hangar my plane, but at $1100/mo, I'll stick with a tie-down, and stick another $200/mo into a paint savings fund.

 

13 hours ago, Ibra said:

In the other hand, I just started flying M20R, it does require attention, nothing fancy just tight ASI & VSI tolerances and heavy loaded with more go-around discipline

Thanks for sharing those points.  In IFR, it's probably easy to let the aircraft get ahead of you, especially with those cruise speeds.  Going from an aircraft that cruises at 115tas to 200tas requires your brain to work twice as fast during the crucial phases of flight.  

 

12 hours ago, GeeBee said:

Good review of the SR-20 in this month's Aviation Consumer.

Some of the common points people do make about the SR-20 is that it feels underpowered, and you can pretty much forget about flying one on hot, humid summer days, when it climbs no better than a loaded 172.  A local flight club owned one for less than a year before one of their pilots slammed it on the runway so hard it was totaled.  

 

9 hours ago, CoffeeCan said:

If I were in your shoes, I’d get a 182/182 RG, and put a solid 150-200 hours in it before moving up

A thought process that I'm beginning to align with. Thank you.

 

7 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

I think OP is long gone, guys...

Haha, not in the slightest.  Four kids, two of which are toddlers, a business to run, and balancing it all is what eats up my day.  I did squeeze in some time on my Can-Am Spyder today (swapped out the exhaust for a high-performance one), and my 4yo fell asleep right at 7pm - as she should - so I'd say it was a good day.

 

I'll keep checking this thread and reply to comments, all of which (positive and negative) I value.  It's certainly a big commitment, both in terms of time and finance.  The last thing I'd want to do is rush into an impulsive purchase only to be left scratching my head months later.  So feel free to keep those comments going.  But my pendulum is swinging moreso towards the 182 at this point.  An old, unimpressive design, but a proven track record with a bulletproof engine that gets you where you need to go so long as icing or 14,000 foot mountain peaks aren't in the way.

 

Cheers gentlemen

[Schllc]

It’s difficult to wrap you arms around the differences in airplanes as a newbie.  
The vernacular is different, things aren’t described consistently, and there are seldom any two airplanes alike. 
Hangar talk is the biggest challenge.  
People love to repeat things they heard second, third or fourth hand, with authority. Talk to people who actually own or owned the models you are considering.  

After I had looked for awhile and had better defined my mission, It occurred to me that I should look for the safest plane I could afford to own.
I decided I wanted a late model Mooney and bought my 2005 ovation two weeks before my ppl and flew it through my ifr. I probably logged 40+ hours of dual with at least 6 different instructors and twice as many safety pilots, in this time period. 
I believe this made me extremely comfortable and proficient in my airplane. 
I also happen to disagree very strenuously with those who say any plane is a bad choice for your first plane.  
It isn’t about which plane you choose, but how you approach learning.  
Military pilots are in aerobatic turboprops immediately and their success rate is very high  They are also steeped in training. 

I agree it’s an emotional purchase.  It’s a large discretionary purchase that is very expensive to own, and if you don’t feel warm and fuzzy when you see it, you will resent the checks you have to write to maintain it. 
 

In my experience, the insurance was more expensive until I got my ifr, but in the grand scheme of what it costs it was negligible. (If you are spending 200-300k on a plane, $600 a month to hangar, 15k+ in training to get a license, etc etc...  is 3k extra in insurance really a problem?)

Annuals have not been anywhere near 10k for any of the five ovations, acclaims, or ultra acclaims I’ve owned.  Only one was expensive, but it was because I needed to have a turbo changed, and I opted for a new one because of lead times.

I find the Mooney to be the most comfortable ergonomically.  Ive made seven hour flights, and the only discomfort was bladder induced. 
I have about 30 hours in a 182 and 180.  The Cessna is a well made plane, but uncomfortable, slow and a gas hog. 
I have several hours in an sr20 and double those in a late model sr22.  I don’t care at all for the side stick, really dislike the look of the plane and found it to be louder inside than the Mooney.  They are also slower and burn more fuel, and definitely less comfortable for me. 
 

Lastly, I started my process of shopping with a partner, but ended up going it alone and am very glad that I did. I don’t want to wonder what was done in my plane by the last guy who flew. It’s about safety for me and if I couldn’t afford, or didn’t want to shoulder the burden alone, I wouldn’t own a plane.  I am extremely particular, methodical and anal and I wouldn’t want to share. 
Plenty of people do, and it appears to work well for them. If you don’t mind people flying your plane, having to reconfigure everything every time you get in, and aren’t bothered by the question of whether the last guy ran it hot, or too lean, or maybe landed hard etc etc, then you will probably have success sharing as well  

I have a hard time seeing myself flying anything else, I love my Mooney. 
if you buy one, you will likely become a mooniac as well. 
 

 

[Ethan]

Gordin,

The Skylane is the most versatile single-engine airplane under the sun. You can load it up with people and gas, fly it to grass strips, land it on really short strips, take off from really short strios, you won’t forget to extend the landing gear, it’s easy to fly, it’s a great instrument platform, it’s cheaper to own and maintain than a Mooney. You would probably be happy with it forever. So what if you can’t go as fast as a Mooney . . . flying is fun, spend more time aloft!

I do love my 231, but I would love a 182 just as much. What sucks about the Mooney is I am a little hesitant (some will scoff) at landing at grass strips - especially short ones. When my taildragger buddies fly off into the wilds of Idaho to camp, I just look forlornly at the horizon and tell them I can’t join them. I would join them in a 182.

Good luck

[ZuluZulu]

I’m glad you’re committed to engaging with the feedback! Too often I see people drop in on this and other boards, ask a provocative question, and then disappear after stirring up whatever they can stir up. Sorry I was too quick on the read. 

I asked the blunt question because usually when people talk about renting a high performance complex single out to that many people, they’re either trying to stretch their budget or find some way to make someone else foot the bill for their flying. That rarely works. However, a carefully chosen and vetted partnership could prove to be extremely beneficial and rewarding. 

[carusoam]

Fun thing to know...

KHPN is White Plains, just a few miles North of NYC...

Things don’t get much more complex or expensive than operating in that area...

 

I am pretty quick on the trigger to mention that Long Bodies don’t make very good first planes for ownership...

 

And @Schllc has given us a route to use if going direct to Long Body ownership is really desired...

The key things are getting up to speed with the high performance aspects of the plane... it’s a level above getting used to all the other planes out there...

Lots of training, plenty of rides with others, hanging out here, get assimilated into the safety culture... attend a Mooney fly-in when able...

Know... no matter how smart you are in your other areas of life... flying is probably different enough, that there is still a lot of work to do...

 

Hmmmm....   
 

Many people buy their first Mooney after they get about 100 hours in other planes...

Having the first Mooney supplies the knowledge to select the the right forever-plane... or next Mooney...

If you want to buy a plane to gain experience... then sell it...

Pick something that is a commodity...   easy to sell...

Or, pick a decent Mooney that makes sense to trade in on the next Mooney...

If traveling up and down the east coast floats your boat... M20C - M20J are quite economical... and a joy to fly...

If you wanted to buy an M20J and move up to a long body, a year and 100hrs later... consider discussing your plan with Jimmy at GMax...  Jimmy specializes in Mooneys and can make transition between planes somewhat seamless...

 

As far as sharing a plane goes... or sharing an automobile goes...  I’m uncomfortable for too many minutes while getting seats and mirrors and other things back the way I left them....  too many things to be uncomfortable about...

I like it when you get in the plane... everything is in the right place...  if something changes, it stands out like a sore thumb.... 

Wait til you have to share a car with your teens... 

If you have the time, dedication, and finances.... go Long Body!

Don’t go Long Body solely because you have the finances...   Look up Thurman Munson ...  too much plane, too soon...

Are you from the NYC area?  Thurman may have been before your time... (NY Yankees trivia...)

PP thoughts on variations of ownership experience...

Everyone here is already flying a Mooney...  all newcomers are welcome...   everyone wants to see you succeed in getting to your next level...

Hopefully, your next level includes Mooney ownership... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Jeff_S]

I can't really add anything to the discussion that's already seen above.  I think in general the Mooney community understands the benefits and limitations of our planes compared to alternatives, and I echo most of what's already been posted.  Except for Anthony...he always gets everything completely wrong! (That's an inside joke...Anthony actually hits the nail on the head 99.999% of the time.)

I can tell you a story that generally speaks to the qualities of the Ovation, though.  I got this anecdote from longtime Mooney lover, Mooney salesperson and friend of the community, Richard Simile.  Fifteen years ago, Richard was contacted by none other than Scott Crossfield of legendary X-plane fame.  Scott was looking to replace his Cessna 210A and he had researched the market.  Richard is a self-professed Scott Crossfield fanatic, so he had a great chance to speak with Scott and get the benefits of his research.  Scott Crossfield, first man to go twice the speed of sound, set multitudes of records in high-powered airplanes and long-time general aviation flyer, had decided that the Mooney Ovation was absolutely the best GA single-engine available, considering all his requirements for speed, efficiency, quality of flight, etc. (Apparently moving down from a C210, load hauling was not high on his needs list!) So they started looking for a model he could buy.

Of course, this purchase never made it to fruition due to other tragic circumstances, but that is one thing I always think about when I get in and fire up my Ovation: it was the plane of choice for one of the most accomplished aviators ever.

That, and the fact that I am still UNDEFEATED in racing my Ovation in the Sport Air Race League!  We had the Sunrise 100 a few weekends ago, and even in bumpy air I was still able to average 217.65 MPH (not knots) over a 128NM course for Best Production Category racer.  Bring it on!!