Ovation short field landing tips

[Ibra]

Anyone experienced with M20R Ovation to give few tips on their short field landing numbers & technique, the manual suggests approaching at 70KIAS (full flaps at 3200lbs, about 1.2*VS0 in KCAS and publishes landing performance on that), does one adjust -2kts on lower weights or not worth it?

On short field with no obstacles on approach path, is it worth going for steeper approach path and bleed speed with flare and gun power it if it sinks? or go shallow approach path while raising nose with continuous power at 70kts just on the back of drag curve?

On ground roll do you put speed breaks? or raise flaps on ground? how much difference these make?

I got an excellent Don Kaye video CD to polish the landings (lists normal, bounced and soft)

Edited May 10, 2021 by Ibra

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, Ibra said:

Anyone experienced with M20R Ovation to give few tips on their short field landing numbers & technique, the manual suggests approaching at 70KIAS (full flaps at 3200lbs, about 1.2*VS0 in KCAS and publishes landing performance on that), does one adjust -2kts on lower weights or not worth it?

On short field with no obstacles on approach path, is it worth going for steeper approach path and bleed speed with flare and gun power it if it sinks? or go shallow approach path while raising nose with continuous power at 70kts just on the back of drag curve?

On ground roll do you put speed breaks? or raise flaps on ground? how much difference these make?

I got an excellent Don Kaye video CD to polish the landings (lists normal, bounced and soft)

Others will certianly chime in, but with any airplane I've flown, but especially Mooneys, the more stabilized the approach speed the more consistently decent the landings are. +/- 70 kts. depending on winds/weight works well on long bodies.

Short field steep approaches and bleeding off speed quickly and gunning power offers too much to go wrong and could get yourself into the dreaded long body touch and porpoise syndrome with no place to go on a short runway. New long body owners have a high rate of prop strikes due to this.

[carusoam]

+1 for consistency... and minimizing the approach angle...

But, what if you are landing over a 50’ tree, onto a short runway..?

+1 for Don Kaye’s landing video and details...

 

+1 For using speed brakes... but, you aren’t going to feel a difference.... notice a difference...  you might be able to measure a slight difference...  Same with raising the flaps...  

both are methods of dumping lift to put weight on the wheels for braking...

But, Speed control is what makes things work...

Speed control is all about selecting final approach speed based on the actual weight of the plane at that moment...

That’s what makes the AOAi kind of an interesting device...

 

Knowing your Vso and calculating 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3 X Vso will help in this conversation....

Know your stall speeds... including the banks used prior to the landing portion...

Practicing scan rate in and out of the cockpit can be helpful... knowing your speed or AOA at all times is helpful...

 

PP thoughts only... NOT a CFI.....

Best regards,

-a-

[Ibra]

4 hours ago, carusoam said:

But, what if you are landing over a 50’ tree, onto a short runway..?

I will add cutting trees to my checklist, it’s clear of obstacles on both ends 

[ilovecornfields]

Vortex generators and AOA indicator are helpful. I don’t really consider the Ovation to be a “short field” airplane, though. I personally prefer long wide paved runways with a precision approach on both ends.

2300’ is the shortest I’ve attempted and it can easily do it but I prefer having more of a safety margin.

I also retract the flaps and deploy the speedbrakes as soon as I touch down. I don’t know if it makes a difference but it makes me feel like I’m doing something. I’m sure some will freak out about retracting flaps on the runway but if you mistake the gear for the flaps in an Ovation then something is wrong with you.

Edited May 11, 2021 by ilovecornfields

[Ibra]

It's 2200ft but flat with 0ft obstacles

35 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

if you mistake the gear for the flaps in an Ovation then something is wrong with you

Indeed, gear handle is designed like a wheel and flap handle is a flap surface, they are nowehere near each other 

[geoffb]

if only that was enough to prevent gear retraction on rollout.....

[ilovecornfields]

1 minute ago, geoffb said:

if only that was enough to prevent gear retraction on rollout.....

Mine seems to do just fine as long as you keep the gear handle down when it’s supposed to be down and up when it’s supposed to be up. I think there’s a reason Cirrus made their piston airplanes fixed-gear. If you can’t handle a “complex” airplane, don’t fly one.

[Ibra]

17 hours ago, geoffb said:

if only that was enough to prevent gear retraction on rollout.....

We should keep this secret between us and never tell people: there is an airspeed safety mechanism & bypass switch, in theory Mooneys should not retract when their ASI reads near zero but I have seen them doing it on jacks sitting in mechanics shops 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Ibra

[A64Pilot]

Most normal aircraft can get into a shorter runway than they can leave from if properly flown, so don’t forget you have to get out too.

‘If obstacles aren’t an issue, then dragging it in, behind the power curve will get you in shortest, due to thrust and airflow over the wing an aircraft under power will fly slower than one that’s not, plus under power the elevator is a whole lot more effective due to prop wash.

If obstacles are an issue, then learn to be comfortable with a full slip all the way to just short of touchdown, dumping flaps etc works on paper, less so in the aircraft, if you have speed brakes leave them out, probably won’t do much, but why not?

Its always a good idea to be short field proficient, you never know when you may need those skills if the engine ever quits.

[geoffb]

If there was plenty of latitude for the go-around, having the speed brakes out seems like it would help.  Confined departure?  I don't think I'd want one more drag item to stow quickly.  Full flap slips were pretty effective in the short body.  Haven't gotten to working on it in K yet.  I'm sure I could get it in much shorter than I'd ever get it out.

[Niko182]

I think personally the ovation does just fine on short field. Speed just really needs to be on the dot. I usually go for around 68-70 on final, however over the fence I'm at 63ish knots. Weight is your enemy, so I always try to be on the lighter side when flying in and out of short fields. The ovation with the top prop and 310HP isn't in the category of "aircraft can get into a shorter runway than they can leave from if properly flown". When light, it will get off the ground easily in around 600ft, and on my best days, I can get the landing ground roll to right under 700ish feet, So it could just be me as a pilot, but If the airplane can make it into the strip, it can definitely get out of it as well.

I'll also dump the flaps when the mains touch. I think it makes a difference since braking is so much more effective. I'll add that it is really enjoyable going into smaller strips. Just know your limits. Short field landing is a very perishable skill, and if you want to fly into small airports or airstrips, speed control and nailing a spot are of the essence, both of which require practice.

 

Edit: My experience is in a screaming eagle, which is identical to an ovation airframe and power plant wise in nearly every way. I just have a lighter empty weight.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Niko182

[Ibra]

Thanks, yes the takeoff with 310hp is not the issue, flies 600ft roll then +1500fpm at 120kts (not even pulling to Vy or Vx), but my landing seems to burn more than that, maybe 150% more than takeoff, feels odd enough to warrant some optimisation, apparently it’s the heavy weight and not Ovation drag at slow speeds: a light weight M20R will deliver same landing distance as M20J both crossing at 70kts 

I fly M20J at 70kts passing fence at 65kts, it’s always under 800ft but I will be lucky to get it out on takeoff unless it’s +25kts wind 

[exM20K]

19 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Most normal aircraft can get into a shorter runway than they can leave from if properly flown, so don’t forget you have to get out too.

‘If obstacles aren’t an issue, then dragging it in, behind the power curve will get you in shortest, due to thrust and airflow over the wing an aircraft under power will fly slower than one that’s not, plus under power the elevator is a whole lot more effective due to prop wash.

If obstacles are an issue, then learn to be comfortable with a full slip all the way to just short of touchdown, dumping flaps etc works on paper, less so in the aircraft, if you have speed brakes leave them out, probably won’t do much, but why not?

Its always a good idea to be short field proficient, you never know when you may need those skills if the engine ever quits.

I agree with the behind-the-power-curve stuff and recommend learning actual Vso at various weights. A 1.2 x Vso approach speed will dramatically shorten the landing distance.  Mooney approximates this as 70 KIAS in the Acclaim POH.

I disagree with the slip technique. 

 

 

[Bentonck]

18 hours ago, Niko182 said:

 

I'll also dump the flaps when the mains touch. I think it makes a difference since braking is so much more effective. I'll add that it is really enjoyable going into smaller strips. Just know your limits. Short field landing is a very perishable skill, and if you want to fly into small airports or airstrips, speed control and nailing a spot are of the essence, both of which require practice.

 

I am with Niko.  I land my Acclaim regularly on a 2200' runway here.  70 on final, pull power on short (1/2 mile or so) final and then have gotten accostumed to land on the numbers.  I always have the go around in my pocket if something doesn't feel right and once down I immediately retract flaps and give it some aero braking before hitting the brakes.  I blew a main out when I first started flying the Acclaim by stepping on the brakes with full flaps, won't do that again.  Make sure you are down and can hold aft elevator, get the flaps up, and then step on those bicycle-brakes to see if they are going to help or not.  I have never used more than 3/4 of the runway but I am always looking for the float, if I get 300 feet down the runway without touching down I'm going around!

[A64Pilot]

While you may think of a 300+ Mooney as a hot rod, short field it’s not. From a short field perspective my Maule was, AOPA says TO roll of 50’, landing 100’, yet it could be drug in well less than 50 ‘ if it was light, so even the Maule can be taken into places it can’t get out of, especially if there is an obstacle.

‘Just beware of one way box canyons etc, you can land with a head wind, but have to leave with a tailwind, there are a lot of one way strips

https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/aircraft-fact-sheets/maule-6

Edited May 15, 2021 by A64Pilot