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Garmin OS and firmware updates


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I have a garmin everything panel.  

Was just quoted 600 dollars to have some software updates and that it would take half a day to do it.

Does this seem right?

They come out with updates once or twice a year....

Seems like they make their stuff needed like the flightstream 510 not working anymore for nav database updates unless you spend big $$ on some firmware or OS crap...

Then next year it will be another 600 dollars?  1000 dollars?

 

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That seems completely crazy. I have never paid more than zero dollars for software updates - usually my Garmin shop just updates everything when the plane is in for something else (IFR recert or whatever). 

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Just now, toto said:

That seems completely crazy. I have never paid more than zero dollars for software updates - usually my Garmin shop just updates everything when the plane is in for something else (IFR recert or whatever). 

I’ve had the same experience, but I’ve never gone in for only an update and currently the only Garmin stuff is a GTX 345 and a GNS 430W.

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23 hours ago, toto said:

That seems completely crazy. I have never paid more than zero dollars for software updates - usually my Garmin shop just updates everything when the plane is in for something else (IFR recert or whatever). 

I have always been charged for OS updates even from the shop that did my install. I had a 10,024 dollar annual in 2020 from the shop that did my all Garmin panel in 2018.  They charged me 230 dollars for the GTN and the GTX345 updates.  

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Just now, Jim Peace said:

I have always been charged for OS updates even from the shop that did my install. I had a 10,024 dollar annual in 2020 from the shop that did my all Garmin panel in 2018.  They charged me 230 dollars for the GTN650 and the GTX345 updates.  

 

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37 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

I have always been charged for OS updates even from the shop that did my install. I had a 10,024 dollar annual in 2020 from the shop that did my all Garmin panel in 2018.  They charged me 230 dollars for the GTN and the GTX345 updates.  

Were they charging for the update itself, or the labor to install it?

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If a firmware update is done correctly, it's not unreasonable to charge 0.5-1.0 of labor per item being updated.  In addition to performing the actual firmware update, the installer is supposed to log the update, print out a revised POH supplement of appropriate size/format and install it in the POH, and provide updated ICA documents if any.  This paperwork dance takes a little time, almost always longer than performing the firmware update itself.

Some avionics shops will indeed do updates for free as a courtesy for good customers.  But free shouldn't necessarily be expected.  Again, the paperwork dance takes a little time.  Note that if you're not getting updated POH and ICA paperwork with the firmware update, the work is not actually being done correctly.

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8 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

If a firmware update is done correctly, it's not unreasonable to charge 0.5-1.0 of labor per item being updated.  In addition to performing the actual firmware update, the installer is supposed to log the update, print out a revised POH supplement of appropriate size/format and install it in the POH, and provide updated ICA documents if any.  This paperwork dance takes a little time, almost always longer than performing the firmware update itself.

Some avionics shops will indeed do updates for free as a courtesy for good customers.  But free shouldn't necessarily be expected.  Again, the paperwork dance takes a little time.  Note that if you're not getting updated POH and ICA paperwork with the firmware update, the work is not actually being done correctly.

Plus the avionics shop carries the risk (returns the unit to the manufacturer for repair/replacement) if the unit is bricked during the update, which can and does happen at times.

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11 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

If a firmware update is done correctly, it's not unreasonable to charge 0.5-1.0 of labor per item being updated.

Per item???  I can see them charging for their time.  But if it takes them an hour to simultaneously update 5 boxes, I'm not sure why you think it would be okay to charge 5 hours.

 

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My very limited and probably ignorant experience is that they stick an SD card in the unit and kick off the upgrade. It does its thing while they do other stuff, and then they pull out the SD card when it's done. 

I guess if you went to the shop exclusively for the software updates and they had to be done serially, it might take some shop time. Still feels like a pretty low level of effort.

From my perspective, a shop builds good will with me when I take the plane in for something else and I find a line item on my invoice for a software update at $0.00. They still get paid for the thing I asked them to do, and I get new software. And they haven't really spent much additional time on it. 

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None of the post above mention its not just a firmware upgrade. The shop or you needs to print out the updated AFMS for new version, fold, punch holes and place it in the supplemental section of your POH. The job isn't really done till that's completed and a log book entry is made.

Before the shop can put the SD card into your unit to update it, they have to logon to the Garmin dealer section of their website and find and download the needed update.

Folks only seem to count the smallest part of the job. The complete process really does take a bit of time to accomplish - not a lot, but its not insignificant. 

Edited by kortopates
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1 hour ago, kortopates said:

The shop or you needs to print out the updated AFMS for new version, fold, punch holes and place it in the supplemental section of your POH.

I'm definitely not getting a new AFMS for every software version bump. Does this apply only if there is a change to the supplement? Or are they required to print out a new identical copy with a new software version number noted?

I don't know what I'm talking about, so I can't possibly dispute any of what you've described. I kind of blindly assume that a busy shop has the latest revisions already downloaded and sitting on shop SD cards that they can use to update every a/c. If they have to log in to a portal and enter specific information for the individual customer and download a custom build, then I would be happy to pay for that time. Sounds like a pita. 

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Looking at Garmin’s website, software update availability varies by product.

For the G5 and G3X, you can download it for free. There is a notice that a logbook entry is required, but presumably you could do this under supervision.

For the GNS 430W and GFC 500 software updates are only available through Garmin dealers. There’s no mention of a charge for the software, so it’s whatever the dealer wants to charge for the installation and paperwork.

AFMS, Pilot’s Guides, sometimes Installation  Manuals and Maintenance Manuals are available for free download.

Skip

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Just now, PT20J said:

For the G5 and G3X, you can download it for free. There is a notice that a logbook entry is required, but presumably you could do this under supervision.

I suspect it's because these started life as experimental products, which would all be owner-serviceable.

I'd guess that somewhere the GFC500 updates are downloadable as "G3X Autopilot" updates. 

But presumably there is a section somewhere for experimental owners to download the certified stuff too - maybe they need to register as their own little radio shop. 

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for the life of me I cant find what the latest software versions are for my avionics.  Where are they on the Garmin site?

I need them for:

Flightstream 510

GTN 650

Garmin G5

GTX 345

Why is this so difficult for an owner to find. 

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Firmware updates come in two flavors. One version is an update predicated on some operational deficiency with the unit. The other is an operational enhancement. Garmin will pay the shop to do the former and Garmin expects the owner to pick up the latter. Like mentioned above, it is up to the shop whether they will pick this cost up for the enhancement updates.

The firmware service notification has a different header denoting the difference between the different types. Can’t remember how it is worded. Something like “TSO” on one and “STC” on the other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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7 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

for the life of me I cant find what the latest software versions are for my avionics.  Where are they on the Garmin site?

I need them for:

Flightstream 510

GTN 650

Garmin G5

GTX 345

Why is this so difficult for an owner to find. 

It's really not that difficult to find.  The screenshot below is for the G5, I found it in about a minute.

Go to Garmin.com and go to aviation.  Find your equipment (the G5 is under Flight Instruments).  Click on Software.  Look for the link.

IMG_2522.PNG

IMG_2523.PNG

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1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

It's really not that difficult to find.  The screenshot below is for the G5, I found it in about a minute.

The G5 was easy....cant find the one for the FS 510 or the GTN 650....to tired to care at this point...

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Garmin does not post Firmware versions on their public website.  They expect you to waste the time of your avionics guy to look up and tell you if a  new FW version has been released. 

If I were an avionics vendor for Garmin, this would be on my list every time they I talked to my contact with Garmin.  Really, Really dumb way to provide generic info that should be available to all their installers as well as all their customers.  (I know Garmin is big... but I don't think that the issue here.  Seems like they've got some people in positions of power that just don't have a clue.)

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7 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

The G5 was easy....cant find the one for the FS 510 or the GTN 650....to tired to care at this point...

The software versions are not easy to find. I use the link https://www.garmin.com/en-US/aviationalerts/category/service-document-notifications/. That gives you the bulletins for all the software updates for everything. To narrow it down to what I want I will use the browser search function to look for something like GTN. If you do that you will see that the last service bulletin for the GTN released main software version 6.71 and for the GTN Xi was 20.11. The Flight Stream 510 version is 2.51. The GTX 345 is 2.54.

I keep all of the software versions for my avionics in a spreadsheet and I will check every few months to see what has changed. If the service bulletin has something I feel I need I will get the new software installed.

Jim

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2 hours ago, jcovington said:

The Flight Stream 510 version is 2.51.

Not sure that is correct...in my plane I have version 2.61....or am I wrong?

all I want is for my nav database to be updated wirelessly like I paid the 1500 dollars for it to do and it does not... F Garmin

 

IMG_5139.jpeg

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Just now, Jim Peace said:

Not sure that is correct...in my plane I have version 2.61....or am I wrong?

Sorry, it has been a couple of months since I looked up the FS 510 version. It is in a different place: https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=6895. The current Flight Stream version is 2.62. Did I mention that the software versions are not easy to find? :)

That version has been working fairly well for me. Once it is connected the transfers usually work. I have seen the transfers hang even with the 2.62 version. I have reset all my network connections on my Android phone and waiting until the next DB cycle to see if that corrects the last problem. My FS 510 was installed in February so I don't have a lot of experience with it yet.

Jim

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23 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

for the life of me I cant find what the latest software versions are for my avionics.  Where are they on the Garmin site?

I need them for:

Flightstream 510

GTN 650

Garmin G5

GTX 345

Why is this so difficult for an owner to find. 

FS 510/FS 210 firmware needs to be updated by shop.

GTN/GTN Xi firmware needs to be updated by shop.

G5 including GFC 500 firmware is downloadable without a shop.

G500/G500TXi firmware needs to be updated by shop.

GTS 800 needs to be updated by shop.

GTX 345 Needs to be updated by shop.

 

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