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Gear down safety


Gubni

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21 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

You saying you don’t check it after that?

Sure, I glance down at the bar when I do my GUMPS, and if things are going that smoothly I might even tug on it a little.  But once the gear is down it's down.

Edited by steingar
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23 hours ago, Hank said:

I drop gear to start descent on downwind, or to start descent when following glideslope [1½ dots before centering].

Problem is most distractions happening the landing pattern.  And if something jumbles you on your downwind you can up and forget.  That's why I go 3 miles out.  Fewer distractions before you hit the downwind.  I try and have the airframe fully dirtied up (gear, flaps, cowl flaps) before I hit the downwind. When I hit the downwind I do GUMPS.

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3 hours ago, steingar said:

Problem is most distractions happening the landing pattern.  And if something jumbles you on your downwind you can up and forget.  That's why I go 3 miles out.  Fewer distractions before you hit the downwind.  I try and have the airframe fully dirtied up (gear, flaps, cowl flaps) before I hit the downwind. When I hit the downwind I do GUMPS.

As a CFI, I would never fault a pilot for having a procedure that worked for him/her.  3 miles out may not be standard for most folks, but you’ve articulated very good reasons and it works for you.  Kudos!

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5 hours ago, steingar said:

Problem is most distractions happening the landing pattern.  And if something jumbles you on your downwind you can up and forget.  That's why I go 3 miles out.  Fewer distractions before you hit the downwind.  I try and have the airframe fully dirtied up (gear, flaps, cowl flaps) before I hit the downwind. When I hit the downwind I do GUMPS.

It depends on your ops. Sometimes I need to give 130 knots down to 1,000 feet on the ils if I don’t want to get stuck in holding hell. 

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5 hours ago, steingar said:

Sure, I glance down at the bar when I do my GUMPS, and if things are going that smoothly I might even tug on it a little.  But once the gear is down it's down.

You don’t think having an automatic reminder to check it would be useful?

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1 hour ago, Cruiser said:

there are lots of methods to doing this and as stated above it is all about distraction and forgetting. That being said the best protection is checking the gear as the very last thing done before touching down. 

Yep. I check the floor indicator on final. Saved me once when Tower sent me 15 nm out,.still at 7500 msl, then cleared me to land #8.

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14 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

You don’t think having an automatic reminder to check it would be useful?

I doubt it pretty strongly.  I already have lots of indications, including an whampum big bar in the middle of my panel.

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Just now, steingar said:

I doubt it pretty strongly.  I already have lots of indications, including an whampum big bar in the middle of my panel.

Many j-bar Mooneys have nevertheless landed gear up . . . . .

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Just now, steingar said:

True, probably because they got distracted in the pattern and forgot to swing the bar.  That's why I lower the gear 3 miles out.

I'm usually well above gear speed that far out, throttle retarded and trying to slow down. Flap speed is 125, that really slows me down.

Gear down starts descent to land (VFR = abeam intended point if landing; IFR = 1-1/2 dots above glideslope intercept).

If I can't hold glideslope and speed, the gear is still up. I've had to prove this to several CFIIs . . . .

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Bar up for gear down....

Easy, because you can see the bar...

Problem: When you don’t see the bar... it is a terrible non-reminder?

 

I like the final green gear down light on short final approach... the last check before committing to using the gear... 

:)

-a-

 

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On 5/6/2021 at 8:42 AM, Hank said:

I'm usually well above gear speed that far out, throttle retarded and trying to slow down. Flap speed is 125, that really slows me down.

My flap speed is 105.  I usually pull out throttle bit by bit on the descent until 3 miles out all I have to do is raise the nose and I get gear speed.  Easy to get to and maintain flap speed with the gear down and low power.  Probably takes me an extra minute or two vs. blasting into the pattern at full speed, but I think there is a huge safety aspect.  You do you and I'll do me.  Seems we both have things under control. Many paths to success when flying a Mooney.

Edited by steingar
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$1500 for a system to remind you, by voice, to lower your gear?  Sounds pretty good.  If you have this system installed, will your insurance go down?  Does the insurance industry recognize this as a tool that protects their underwriting assets in any degree?

Can the voice be programed to have her have an aussie accent?

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Why would anyone ever wait to get into the pattern to lower the gear? Makes no sense. The amount of time and fuel cost is miniscule. A lot of what is in classical training comes from the experience of really good military pilots, but what is forgotten is that when they land, whether on a base or a carrier, they are landing with other disciplined military traffic. They don't have the student pilot doing first solo or completely lost in the pattern, the ag spray airplane not on the radio that hops in from a nearby field at low altitude when you in the last stages, the guy taking off in an ultralight from the grass next to the approach end, the pilot behind not controlling his speed, the request to keep speed up for the Lear behind you, etc., etc. And these are all real, things I have experienced in the pattern and many many more and so have you. Technology does not help, every gear up is done with the gear horn blaring. Look at an approach chart, gear goes down at the FAF, which is anywhere from 3.5 to 6 miles from the runway. On the one hand, I don't care of a good pilot wants to wait until downwind descent to put the gear down. On the other hand, I do care if my insurance goes up because he was such a super good, superior pilot, that always worked for him. Give yourself a chance.

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4 hours ago, Mufflerbearing said:

$1500 for a system to remind you, by voice, to lower your gear?  Sounds pretty good.  If you have this system installed, will your insurance go down?  Does the insurance industry recognize this as a tool that protects their underwriting assets in any degree?

Can the voice be programed to have her have an aussie accent?

You already have a system to remind you.  Pull the power enough to slow down enough to land and there's an alarm if the gear isn't down.  What's this new thing supposed to do again?

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1 hour ago, steingar said:

Vous avez déjà un système pour vous le rappeler. Tirez suffisamment sur la puissance pour ralentir suffisamment pour atterrir et il y a une alarme si l'engrenage n'est pas descendu. Qu'est-ce que cette nouvelle chose est censée faire à nouveau?

Annoy your wife if you chose a female voice...

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3 hours ago, steingar said:

You already have a system to remind you.  Pull the power enough to slow down enough to land and there's an alarm if the gear isn't down.  What's this new thing supposed to do again?

What you say is true, but I have only once had the alarm go off which is the same sound as the stall horn.  Having a different sound or words would be nice. 

I can tell when the gear is down or not as I can't get the speed off without the gear down.  Very telling.  This one time was when I had the speed brakes out which gave me the same resistance as my gear out.  Gumps check fixed it.

I have found dropping the gear midfield works for me with the 10 degree flaps abreast of the numbers then full flaps on base.  This works for me in the pattern.

Coming in IFR direct to the runway it's different.  I drop the gear at the IF, slow down, then flaps etc. down to 100 kts on approach.  This works well for these approaches.

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