Where to by an engine?

[Gubni]

I am looking at a M20k with the 252 engine. TSIO 360-MB4B. I called Continental who forwarded me to Airpower who said about 68k and 12 weeks. I called Penn Yan who said 8-9 weeks and 63k. Is this normal? Who else should I call?

[KLRDMD]

http://www.jewellaviation.com/pdf/Price Sheet 2020 Engines.pdf

Edited April 21, 2021 by KLRDMD

[RobertGary1]

I went through Airpower. Everyone is going to say the same because none of the stock motors (well, other than Western Skyways). They're all just forwarding your order to the factory.

[RobertGary1]

Just now, KLRDMD said:

http://www.jewellaviation.com/overhauls.htm

I don't think he's looking for an overhauler. He asked where to buy a motor.

[KLRDMD]

Just now, RobertGary1 said:

I don't think he's looking for an overhauler. He asked where to buy a motor.

Yes he did but from his wording it seemed to me that he had an airplane with an engine that can probably be overhauled. 

[Gubni]

Just now, KLRDMD said:

Yes he did but from his wording it seemed to me that he had an airplane with an engine that can probably be overhauled. 

Yes I'm looking to the cheapest, fastest, and best option. I know all three and impossible and two is unlikely so really I'm considering all options.

[gsxrpilot]

Talk to Western Skyways in Montrose, CO.

[RJBrown]

I had a good experience with Western Skyways on the 1990 MSE in my avatar.

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, Gubni said:

Yes I'm looking to the cheapest, fastest, and best option. I know all three and impossible and two is unlikely so really I'm considering all options.

Well getting a motor from Cont will be far from the cheapest option. If you don't mind the downtime for an overhaul there are lots of places. Otherwise, like I said Western Skyways often has overhauled motors sitting around to swap.

Edited April 21, 2021 by RobertGary1

[Bartman]

2 hours ago, Gubni said:

Yes I'm looking to the cheapest, fastest, and best option. I know all three and impossible and two is unlikely so really I'm considering all options.

Cheapest, fastest, and best. 
 

I’m really not trying to be an ass, but Pick 2, or better yet just pick one. It has been my experience you cannot do all 3 simultaneously, and I paid for that education. 

[Hank]

Yep. 

Cheap, fast, done right. Pick any two . . . .

[Gubni]

Just now, Hank said:

Yep. 

Cheap, fast, done right. Pick any two . . . .

Okay tell me who is fast and done right? 8 weeks seems to be minimum.

[Ragsf15e]

Western Skyways may have one which would be fast.  They have a solid reputation.  I used them for cylinder overhaul and it was done on time and on quote.

Jewell for an overhaul would be my next place to look.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Ragsf15e

[Gubni]

6 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Western Skyways may have one which would be fast.  They have a solid reputation.  I used them for cylinder overhaul and it was done on time and on quote.

Jewell for an overhaul would be my next place to look.

I called them and I was quoted $52,xxx and 8 weeks. To me fast would be they have one on the shelf and will ship it to me and I put mine in that box and ship it back.

[carusoam]

Gub,

Welcome to the big leagues of engine OH..!

It doesn’t get any bigger than OHing a big TC’d engine...

 

Use caution with the pricing...

Get used to going through what is included with each offer... and what gets left out... if you aren’t specific...

The easiest offers to read used to come directly from the Continental factory...

Each engine has a boatload of expensive items bolted to it...

• mags
• starter
• alternator
• turbo system
• governor
• Spark plugs, a dozen expensive ones...

 

Make sure you understand if these are getting remounted as is, or getting OH’d in the price... or are new...

You might have some new items that you may want to keep... no sense in having a new starter or alternator OH’d.

If you had a more common engine like the NA IO550... The factory reman is almost finished, sitting on a shelf... all it takes is two weeks to finish the order... and two weeks to ship it where you are...

 

Are you familiar with the terms...

• New
• Remanufactured
• Overhauled

And what they mean to each engine supplier...

Get used to using the terminology... and the exact details of your engine....

As PIC, you are responsible for getting your order correct...  right down to shipping and insurance... 

 

What are you looking for..? 
 

I went with...

1) Factory remanufactured...

2) IO550 (N)

3) Included the 310HP STC...

4) Which required updates to the gov, and rpm gauge...

5) It took about a month to get...

6) Installation happened quickly... another month.

7) The prop took several months to build... selected the blades by number... aka the Acclaim’s prop...

8) Break in flights followed...  there is a written procedure for that too... it is supplied by the engine (re)builder...

 

The more details you list, with answers and plan B...

The faster you will be flying again...

If you are relying on somebody else to get all of these details correct...  expect some disappointment to befall you...

Double check everything...

Write everything down...

 

Turbo six cylinder engines are complex marvels....  

which MP controller do you have, which one do you want? Do you have an intercooler already?

What is the health of the exhaust system downstream from the exhaust valve to the turbo?

 

Borrow some experience from Paul... he has been writing down everything regarding getting his engine OH’d and broken in...  look for @gsxrpilot.

 

You will quickly find... when you write things down and post them.... somebody will read it and make recommendations...  If this is your first engine project... you will be learning at a very high rate... expect mistakes to be made...  best to have somebody make a recommendation... it may save you a lot of time and or money... 

Best regards,

-a-

 

[gsxrpilot]

It's all relative and we can't expect the new guy to have the meter dialed in or calibrated yet.

On the subject of engine overhauls, 8 weeks is fast. In fact when quoted 8 weeks, be very happy with 10. 

I chose to go with Jewell as it's the best price anywhere for an overhaul. 8 to 10 weeks is typical, according to the shops that send engines to Jewell. He had my engine for just shy of 4 months. But Covid, but the holidays, but it's a turbo, but, but... but it was cheap*

*again its relative

[RobertGary1]

4 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

It's all relative and we can't expect the new guy to have the meter dialed in or calibrated yet.

On the subject of engine overhauls, 8 weeks is fast. In fact when quoted 8 weeks, be very happy with 10. 

I chose to go with Jewell as it's the best price anywhere for an overhaul. 8 to 10 weeks is typical, according to the shops that send engines to Jewell. He had my engine for just shy of 4 months. But Covid, but the holidays, but it's a turbo, but, but... but it was cheap*

*again its relative

The only other disadvantage of an overhaul is the quote assumes most major components will be reused as is. So if you have worn cam lobes, bad crank, case crack on inspection the bill goes up dramatically.  One reason I went with factory reman. They only care that it ran. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by RobertGary1

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Gubni said:

I called them and I was quoted $52,xxx and 8 weeks. To me fast would be they have one on the shelf and will ship it to me and I put mine in that box and ship it back.

Yeah, if they don’t have one on the shelf, you’re in for a wait just about everywhere. 

[Aerodon]

I have a spare TSIO360MB that could be overhauled prior to removing yours to minimize downtime?

 

Aerodon

[Will.iam]

2 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

The only other disadvantage of an overhaul is the quote assumes most major components will be reused as is. So if you have worn cam lobes, bad crank, case crack on inspection the bill goes up dramatically.  One reason I went with factory reman. They only care that it ran. 

With the price of a reman already being dramatically higher than an overhaul to start with, if the overhaul does need all the major components replaced you just didn’t save more than the reman.