Sales and Use Tax Nonsense.....

[flyingchump]

I'm learning that a "pilots license" does not give you a license to fly, it gives everyone else the license to take your money...   

[A64Pilot]

That certainly puts to rest the question of whether flightaware and ADSB is used for taxing purposes.

Surprised the answers were so straight forward

[Hank]

16 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

That certainly puts to rest the question of whether flightaware and ADSB is used for taxing purposes.

Seriously, no one was really surprised by this??? Next will come use-based user fees.

[PeteMc]

For years there have been attempt to make ATC a User-Fee based service. 

Let's see, your IFR flight is 100 miles direct, but we're going to route you via XXX, so that will be 150 mile.  $1 per mile, that will be $150 please.

[RobertGary1]

Just now, PeteMc said:

For years there have been attempt to make ATC a User-Fee based service. 

Let's see, your IFR flight is 100 miles direct, but we're going to route you via XXX, so that will be 150 mile.  $1 per mile, that will be $150 please.

Mooney 123 we'd like to request the ILS approach. 

Mooney 123 expect vectors for the ILS. Do you have a credit card on file or we can take apple pay.

[Stetson20]

7 hours ago, NJMac said:

Before you do that, see if "casual sales" applies to you and allows a case for avoiding sales tax in MI.  I got out of sales tax in OH using that when bought my Mooney and intend to use it again when I purchase my Bonanza.  I even confirmed legally LLCs are allowed to use this exemption too. 

Which state rules/regs are you quoting here?

[Hank]

6 minutes ago, Stetson20 said:

Which state rules/regs are you quoting here?

Many states have exemptions like this. It applied when / where I bought mine.

Some people will carefully coordinate the purchase location to be in such a state [I lived, and the airport was in, such a state] and to base the plane outside the taxing state's location for the correct number of days before crossing the border; sometimes this means the plane cannot be flown anywhere within the taxing state until the time period is up. It all depends on the individual state's regulations.

[Stetson20]

Just now, Hank said:

Many states have exemptions like this. It applied when / where I bought mine.

Some people will carefully coordinate the purchase location to be in such a state [I lived, and the airport was in, such a state] and to base the plane outside the taxing state's location for the correct number of days before crossing the border; sometimes this means the plane cannot be flown anywhere within the taxing state until the time period is up. It all depends on the individual state's regulations.

Thanks, I’ll look in to it.

[EricJ]

12 minutes ago, Hank said:

Many states have exemptions like this. It applied when / where I bought mine.

Some people will carefully coordinate the purchase location to be in such a state [I lived, and the airport was in, such a state] and to base the plane outside the taxing state's location for the correct number of days before crossing the border; sometimes this means the plane cannot be flown anywhere within the taxing state until the time period is up. It all depends on the individual state's regulations.

Texas is a "fly away" state, so that's another benefit of having a PPI done at Maxwell's or SWTA or such.   This worked out for me as I picked the airplane up at Maxwell's and flew it home.   A year or so later I got a letter from a local government asking about sales tax on the purchase.   I sent a letter back indicating I took delivery in TX although the seller was in Maryland.   Never heard anything back about it.

 

[Ragsf15e]

I also used casual sale in TX, and it wasn’t complicated.  They did send a letter asking for buyer/seller info, but never heard about it again.

When I moved to WA, I did research and realized I would likely owe use tax (8%). After about 6 months I got a letter to register my airplane in WA ($65/year). Step one of registering is providing a use tax receipt (you just pay it once.  Previous paid sales/use tax from other states are deducted).  So off I went to the tax office... here’s where just sitting quietly might be good... They asked for the type of airplane, year, serial #.  Then I sat there while they googled some random aircraft blue book sites.  There was no question of purchase price, engine time, avionics, etc.  Eventually she said, looks like it’s worth about $30k, that’ll be $2400.  I wrote a check.

[GeeBee]

RE: Virginia

Sounds like it is time to get a dot-com call sign.

 

[G-SLOT]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

Mooney 123 we'd like to request the ILS approach. 

Mooney 123 expect vectors for the ILS. Do you have a credit card on file or we can take apple pay.

Welcome to flying in the UK. 

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

Texas is a "fly away" state, so that's another benefit of having a PPI done at Maxwell's or SWTA or such.   This worked out for me as I picked the airplane up at Maxwell's and flew it home.   A year or so later I got a letter from a local government asking about sales tax on the purchase.   I sent a letter back indicating I took delivery in TX although the seller was in Maryland.   Never heard anything back about it.

 

I did that but live in California. So the scratched out the term "sales tax" and replaced it with "use tax" and magic, its the same 9% rate.

 

-Robert

[NJMac]

2 hours ago, Stetson20 said:

Which state rules/regs are you quoting here?

That screenshot is from Ohio dept of taxation, https://tax.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/tax/help-center/faqs/vehicle-taxability-compliance-aircraft/motor-vehicle-taxability-aircraft

[Igor_U]

2 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I also used casual sale in TX, and it wasn’t complicated.  They did send a letter asking for buyer/seller info, but never heard about it again.

When I moved to WA, I did research and realized I would likely owe use tax (8%). After about 6 months I got a letter to register my airplane in WA ($65/year). Step one of registering is providing a use tax receipt (you just pay it once.  Previous paid sales/use tax from other states are deducted).  So off I went to the tax office... here’s where just sitting quietly might be good... They asked for the type of airplane, year, serial #.  Then I sat there while they googled some random aircraft blue book sites.  There was no question of purchase price, engine time, avionics, etc.  Eventually she said, looks like it’s worth about $30k, that’ll be $2400.  I wrote a check.

Been there, done that.

After owning a plane in FL for two years (where I paid sales tax), moved to WA and had to pay the difference. 

It still rubs me wrong way after all these years...

[Mooneymite]

More from Darcy (I suspect the question about Part 91, 91K and 135 is erroneous):

 

Are commercial operators/airlines exempt from this tax? 

 

Regularly scheduled air service, typically U.S. based airlines and cargo carriers operating under 14 CFR Part 121 which are certified as such through the FAA are generally considered to be tax exempt.  Examples of this would be United Airlines, American Airlines, Delta Airlines, etc

  

Does this tax law cover Part 91, 91K, and 135 operators?

 

No.

 

Are there any operations which might be exempted, EG Compassion flights, disaster relief, etc? 

 

Code of Virginia 58.1-1501 states:

"...any nonprofit charitable organization which is exempt from taxation under § 501 (c) (3) of the Internal Revenue Code and which is organized and operated exclusively for the purpose of providing charitable, long-distance, advanced life-support, air ambulance services for low-income medical patients in the Commonwealth, or (v) an organization which is exempt from taxation under § 501 (c) (3) of the Internal Revenue Code and which is organized for the primary purpose of distributing food, clothing, medicines and other necessities of life to, and providing shelter for, needy persons in the United States and throughout the world shall be exempt from the tax imposed by this chapter."

 

Is a partial day count as a full day in Virginia?  

 

Any increment of time during a day counts as a day.

 

If I fly in on Friday night, stay Saturday and Sunday and depart Monday morning, how many days count toward the 90 days?

 

Four days.

 

For more information, the Code of Virginia can be found on the Virginia Law Library website at https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode.

 

Darcy Vassar

Aircraft Registration Program Manager

VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF AVIATION

5702 GULFSTREAM RD, RICHMOND, VA, 23250-2422

[EricJ]

26 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Is a partial day count as a full day in Virginia?  

 

Any increment of time during a day counts as a day.

 

If I fly in on Friday night, stay Saturday and Sunday and depart Monday morning, how many days count toward the 90 days?

 

Four days.

That makes it pretty straightforward to count up the days during a year, and a logbook ought to provide substantial documentation if required.   I think if I was going someplace that often to hit the 90 day mark I'd not argue too much about paying my share.

 

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

That makes it pretty straightforward to count up the days during a year, and a logbook ought to provide substantial documentation if required.   I think if I was going someplace that often to hit the 90 day mark I'd not argue too much about paying my share.

 

I don’t see how it’s paying your share.

Do they tax automobiles that exceed 90 days? Why not? Where did 90 days come from, will it become 30 in the future?

Yes I’m being argumentative, no I’m not trying to insult.

I don’t like being found guilty of laws or taxes that I’m not aware of, FWC stopped me in my dinghy, yes a little inflatable boat in Jacksonville for going too fast in a Manatee zone. So I asked where are the signs? Shouldn’t it be posted? According to FWC it’s online, go to some page on the City of Jacksonville web site and the Manatee zones are posted.

Just as I’m sure somewhere it’s posted that Virginia will levy some significant use tax if you accumulate 90 days in State in one Calendar year. I bet most discover this when they get the letter saying the tax is due, and I believe that’s wrong.

Laws like this should be plainly posted at any FBO, that way your informed and can make an informed decision if you desire to exceed 90 days or not.

By the way, I laid out a logical argument to FWC and along with ensuring him that I’m retired and had nothing better to do than to go to court over it and he let me go.

By the way, he was an unmarked FWC, something else that I disagree with.

OK I’m off my soap box now, but I do believe that if we are being unfairly treated or singled out that we have the obligation to politely raise our hands and ask why, and to try to change it.

Edited April 22, 2021 by A64Pilot

[75_M20F]

This seems to indicate you can show you paid tax already in your home state to offset the Virginia tax.

 

§ 58.1-1504. Credit against tax.

A credit shall be granted against the tax imposed by this chapter with respect to a person's use in this Commonwealth of an aircraft purchased by him in another state, or assembled by him from component parts on which Virginia retail sales or use tax was paid. The amount of the credit shall be equal to the tax paid by him to another state by reason of the imposition of a similar tax on his purchase or use of the property or the amount of Virginia retail sales and use tax paid on the component parts of such assembled aircraft. The amount of the credit shall not exceed the tax imposed by this chapter.

 

Code of Virginia Code - Chapter 15. Virginia Aircraft Sales and Use Tax

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by 75_M20F

[Browncbr1]

What a shakedown

[75_M20F]

Yep, fly your airplane into Virginia 90 times in one year or have it present in the state for 90 days, and you owe them 2% the value of your airplane, and not paying is a crime on top of that! Which is only 7 or 8 times a month, easy to do if you have family in the state as I do....

It also appears operating less than the 90 day trigger will still generate a letter. I say this because I fly into VA typically3 times a month (all day trips, never an overnight) and it has triggered a letter anyway. I guess they are using the shotgun approach,

Edited April 24, 2021 by 75_M20F

[NJMac]

We're flying to Maine this summer for a vacation.  Found out Maine charges full sales tax if your plane is there over 20 days.  Don't tell VA, they may start reducing their days for tax to trigger. 

[PeteMc]

I wonder where the cross over point is in days for how much they WOULD have made if I visited the state and paid for hotel rooms, meals and other tourist expenses.  Plus the fuel and tie-down fees.  And my NOT going there more than maybe 10 days (if that) in a year to make sure I don't come close to the limit.  

We fly up to Bar Harbor for hiking in Acadia, but don't want to get close to their limit. 

 

[carusoam]

This must be an old rule, unchanged for a century, for some un-apparent reason...

Why would a state want to keep you from visiting, and use a really strong economic pain to do so?

This looks like they don’t want the wealthy airplane riff-raff from over-staying their welcome...   

What would happen if I parked my firebird at their airport if I rented a summer house near the beach?

Pure speculation on my part...

Best regards,

-a-

[A64Pilot]

It’s simply greed, I don’t think the law is written with the average little GA airplane in mind, they are after the biz jets.

But they don’t get them, they only snare the little guys, that don’t know any better and don’t have professional pilots that take the aircraft back out of State.

I believe the laws are relatively new.