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TKS Fluid Dripping Out of Nose Gear Door


RonM

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Colleagues:  I have a 1991 Mooney MSE /  1997 Missile Conversion, and I am based at Caldwell NJ Airport. I added a TKS system in about 2005. I regularly exercise the TKS system once per month. Anyhow, I had my plane washed and waxed at our wash rack. I taxi-ed back to my tie-down spot and decided to run the TKS system. TKS fluid was dripping heavily through the nose gear door, not from the prop like usual! Not wanting to have TKS fluid dripping through my engine compartment, I shut the TKS system off. I then started the engine and ran at idle for 20 minutes, figuring any moisture in the engine compartment might evaporate. Now the person who waxed my airplane knew to only use alcohol and be gentle on the TKS panels. However he was oblivious to the rubber mounts on the inner part of the prop and I saw wax residue there. I explained the rubber mounts on the prop were part of the de-ice system. I explained this after the job. I did not watch the job. The wax job and waxing the prop may be totally irrelevant to the issue of the TKS fluid leaking out of the nose gear door. Pretty rapid leak too, almost pouring out of the nose gear door. Any commentary appreciated!  Thank U - Ron M

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If you have the copper tube, see if it wiggles - it breaks all the time. Replace it with the steel version from CAV or there may be one available in stock at Total Aircraft at HFD. 

not sure about your install but on the long body there is also a hose from the firewall to the slinger body. Check that. Sounds more like it’s loose at the firewall. 

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I noticed TKS fluid dripping from the same place when I first bought my FIKI Ovation. There is a TKS line that runs from the firewall, through the engine compartment, to the prop slinger. In my case, the shielded part of that line running past the oil cooler was touching the oil cooler and had burnt through, allowing some fluid to leak out when the system was operated. I had the line replaced and routed away from the oil cooler and that solved the problem instantly.

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On 4/20/2021 at 8:20 PM, RonM said:

Thank U GeeBee!  I was told TKS fluid is corrosive, so I was un-nerved to see the fluid dripping from the nose gear door. I have a beautiful recently overhauled engine from Penn Yann.

  Regards - RonM

It is not corrosive.  It if were, TKS-equipped aircraft would be falling apart left and right.  

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5 hours ago, G-SLOT said:

I noticed TKS fluid dripping from the same place when I first bought my FIKI Ovation. There is a TKS line that runs from the firewall, through the engine compartment, to the prop slinger. In my case, the shielded part of that line running past the oil cooler was touching the oil cooler and had burnt through, allowing some fluid to leak out when the system was operated. I had the line replaced and routed away from the oil cooler and that solved the problem instantly.

  Thank you, G-SLOT.  Very helpful.

   Regards - RonM

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2 hours ago, Cruiser said:

It is not like water and will not evaporate quickly. It leaves a wet, slippery coating that will allow ferrous metals to rust quickly. 

  Thank you Cruiser.  Your comment much appreciated.

   RonM

   

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On 4/22/2021 at 8:26 AM, Cruiser said:

It is not like water and will not evaporate quickly. It leaves a wet, slippery coating that will allow ferrous metals to rust quickly. 

Respectfully, do you have any data with which to back us this claim?   I've heard the suppositions that the TKS could trap water and therefore the water could cause issues.  I've not found however any credible sources describing this.  Also, TKS fluid in and of itself is not corrosive that I know of.  Perhaps @CAV Icecould chime in with some data, etc....

 

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You are correct, CAV claims the TKS fluid is not corrosive.

there are a couple of cases of TKS Bonanzas that had severe corrosion of ferrous metals in the wings. Not directly attributed to the TKS fluid but they did have problems. 

You can test the TKS fluid yourself. Put out two dishes in your hangar. One with water and one with TKS fluid and monitor the results. As an added test, dip two pieces of metal in the fluids and hang them in the air

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Bonanzas that have a plain steel wire in the leading edge piano hinge have experience corrosion.  Bonanzas with stainless wire in the piano hinge have not.  There's an SB or similar describing this.  Not sure it's been fully attributed to the presence of a TKS system or not.  I'm sure the CAV folks will chime in.

The fluid is water, IPA and ethylene glycol.  The water would seem to be the most component most concerning for corrosion
 

As a new TKS owner myself, my question is, is the plumbing in the system particularly fragile?  I see some drips from the belly when I run mine.

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On 4/22/2021 at 5:23 AM, alextstone said:

It is not corrosive.  It if were, TKS-equipped aircraft would be falling apart left and right.  

It's not corrosive when new.  Old fluid can get acidic - it's worth a couple bucks to get a pH meter if you have old or suspect fluid.

-dan

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2 hours ago, geoffb said:

As a new TKS owner myself, my question is, is the plumbing in the system particularly fragile?  I see some drips from the belly when I run mine.

It is worth pulling the inspection panels and running the system on the ground to check for leaks.  In my system, the lines to the panels are almost under tension they are so short..  I've had a line part in the tail of my 231, but that was more than just some drips, and the system wouldn't come up to pressure (the pressure sensor is in the vertical stab).

If you look at the fuselage by the flaps with them full down, you will see that it is open to the elements.  Water and TKS can get in there for sure.

a squirt of Corrosion X into the tail after use was suggested to me by DMAX.  there are some slits in the horizontal surface, towards the rear and near the vertical stab.  Spray can with straw fits nicely.

-dan

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Challenges for owners new 2 TKS systems....

The systems are well designed and executed... nothing fragile about the parts...

But, some things may not have been done perfectly well...

Much depends on who did the installation... or maintenance...

 

Some hose / compression fittings have been disconnected and not put back properly...

Some routing can be done better...

Some panels have come unsecured...

 

Keeping things operating takes some common exercise...

CAV has some good people if you want to ask questions...

 

PP thoughts only, stuff I have read about around here...

Best regards,

-a-

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I am late to the party here, but have my motor a bit taken apart and had a chance to get some good pics. Maybe they will be helpful for someone. 

Red arrows show the fittings that the TKS fluid passes through, assuming that the hose isn't broken, I would guess its leaking from the baffle fitting of the fire wall fitting. 

 

 

4-26-2021 1-21-26 PM.png

4-26-2021 1-22-15 PM.png

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On 4/23/2021 at 9:27 AM, alextstone said:

Respectfully, do you have any data with which to back us this claim?   I've heard the suppositions that the TKS could trap water and therefore the water could cause issues.  I've not found however any credible sources describing this.  Also, TKS fluid in and of itself is not corrosive that I know of.  Perhaps @CAV Icecould chime in with some data, etc....

 

You are correct.  TKS fluid itself is not corrosive, however like you said it can hold water.  I've done an "unofficial" test in the repair station with bare metal.  I put TKS on one and water on the other.  The results were as expected.  The water corroded and TKS did not.  It did take the TKS quite a while to evaporate.

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On 4/20/2021 at 6:04 PM, RonM said:

Colleagues:  I have a 1991 Mooney MSE /  1997 Missile Conversion, and I am based at Caldwell NJ Airport. I added a TKS system in about 2005. I regularly exercise the TKS system once per month. Anyhow, I had my plane washed and waxed at our wash rack. I taxi-ed back to my tie-down spot and decided to run the TKS system. TKS fluid was dripping heavily through the nose gear door, not from the prop like usual! Not wanting to have TKS fluid dripping through my engine compartment, I shut the TKS system off. I then started the engine and ran at idle for 20 minutes, figuring any moisture in the engine compartment might evaporate. Now the person who waxed my airplane knew to only use alcohol and be gentle on the TKS panels. However he was oblivious to the rubber mounts on the inner part of the prop and I saw wax residue there. I explained the rubber mounts on the prop were part of the de-ice system. I explained this after the job. I did not watch the job. The wax job and waxing the prop may be totally irrelevant to the issue of the TKS fluid leaking out of the nose gear door. Pretty rapid leak too, almost pouring out of the nose gear door. Any commentary appreciated!  Thank U - Ron M

@RonM We exercise our TKS every couple weeks on our Columbia 400.  To avoid the mess in the hangar and engine area we run it during trips.  Run the system in cruise on your outbound leg until you see the panels wetting out (a couple of turns to get the sun angle just right will allow you to see the fluid on the wings... see attached picture).  Once landed look at the trailing edges of the wings and tail.  There will more than likely be residual fluid there so you can ensure the tail is wetting out.  Then on your return trip leave the system off (if possible).  This should allow the majority of the TKS fluid to leave the airframe and wont leave a mess in your hangar.  

We have noted TKS fluid running down inside our engine cowling and out the nose gear if we run it in the hangar.

Another option, if you want to run it in the hangar, is to cap the prop by removing the prop nozzle and capping it there.  A bit more maintenance extensive though.

Hope this helps. -Jason

Columbia wing in flight.jpg

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