“How much does an overhaul cost?”

[BKlott]

Friday, August 27th

Zephyr Aircraft Engines delivered my engine today and it sure does look nice!

Included with the engine came a very professional level of documentation, nicely presented in a notebook with document protectors. The notebook contains a copy of my invoice with a detailed parts listing, Zephyr’s Warranty (2 years / 500 hours), detailed engine break in directions, a new Engine Log Book, an AD Compliance Record, and the 8130 forms.

The total cost of their overhaul to new parts limits was $22,800. This figure included 4 new Superior Millenium cylinder assemblies, a new Lycoming Camshaft kit and all the other parts that Zephyr automatically replaces as part of their overhaul criteria. My total came to $26,600 because my crankcase was found to be cracked beyond repair by DIVCO. DIVCO offered a yellow tagged crankcase for $3,800 to Zephyr and they gave that to me at cost.  A new crankcase would have been an option but Zephyr said that availability was an issue and they had no problem with a used case that DIVCO has gone through. I deferred to their judgement.

Someone asked about my crankshaft which was delayed but eventually repaired by Rick Romans, Inc. in Tulsa, Oklahoma. His Record of Repair indicates that the crankshaft was magnafluxed, grind the rod and main journals m .006, renitride, plate flange, repaired the seal area as per a Lycoming Service Bulletin, repaired pitting of front main journal, compliance with another Service Bulletin and all ADs.

If the crankshaft had been beyond repair, that would have been another issue (read $$$$) to resolve.

That is a potential problem that we all face, whether we go for an overhaul or a factory exchange engine. Lycoming requires you to certify your old crankcase and crankshaft. Either way, you are on the hook for these things.

Since I had paid Zephyr a $9,440 deposit up front, that was deducted from my $26,600 bill leaving a remaining balance due today of $17,160.

Our project total is now up to $36,204.50.

We still have the engine monitor expense and the cost of reinstalling the engine before we are done. Stay tuned!

I do have to admit, this is one nice looking engine…

Edited August 27, 2021 by BKlott

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, BKlott said:

Friday, August 

That is a potential problem that we all face, whether we go for an overhaul or a factory exchange engine. Lycoming requires you to certify your old crankcase and crankshaft. Either way, you are on the hook for these things.

 

Last I heard, Lycoming core policy says if you deliver them an operable, running engine they do not charge for surprises later. That is one good thing you get is that you have no core chargebacks, because the crank and a case together are like 10 grand that you will be eating from a field overhauled.  
 

It is a nice looking engine you’re going to have fun..

[PT20J]

40 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Last I heard, Lycoming core policy says if you deliver them an operable, running engine they do not charge for surprises later. That is one good thing you get is that you have no core chargebacks, because the crank and a case together are like 10 grand that you will be eating from a field overhauled.  

That’s correct. I had an extensive conversation about this with my Lycoming field rep because my engine had broken an oil control ring which took out a piston skirt and ran metal through the engine including the connecting rod big end. The core was worth 14K and the terms of the contract seemed to leave a lot to Lycoming’s discretion. But it turns out that Lycoming isn’t so concerned about the serviceability of crankshafts, cases and whatnot. What they are trying to protect against is shops throwing a bunch of used parts in a box and calling it an engine.

Skip

[BKlott]

Article from Aviation Consumer that was updated in October 2019 indicates a change in the enforcement of Lycoming’s Core Policy:

 

The Lycoming Surprise

After years of looking the other way, Lycoming is getting tough on core charges for factory overhauls. Read the fine print before buying.

By

 estaff

 -

Published: December 20, 2004Updated: October 29, 2019

 

by Russ Niles

When Illinois flight school and maintenance shop owner Brian Olofsson ordered a factory overhauled Lycoming engine from Air Power Inc. earlier this year for a customer, he said he was told it was business as usual. As Air Power proclaims from ads in most major aviation publications, you send in your old core for exchange and get the off-the-shelf new engine for $300 over invoice, plus taxes and shipping.

Yes, the customer or someone from his staff signed a document saying they were aware of Lycomings core exchange policy and that there could be a charge back if there were any unserviceable parts. But nobody had ever heard of Lycoming assessing a core charge, even when obviously damaged cranks and cases were returned. For years, everyone has known Lycoming looked the other way.

Until this year.

Old Policy, New Light
As Olofsson and his customer discovered, Lycoming has changed the way it does business on rebuilt and overhauled engines. It decided last January to dust off the core policy and begin strictly enforcing it. Now, if you dont go into an exchange deal with your eyes open, you could be surprised by a bill for thousands of dollars above the basic cost of the engine.

If we had known this policy had taken effect, we might have considered other options for the engine, said Olofsson. As it turned out, on September 1, more than three months after the order was placed and long after the new engine was installed and flying, the customer was notified that the crankcase of the exchange engine had a crack in the deck web of the #5 cylinder.According to Lycoming standards, a crack in that, or any other stressed section of the crankcase, cant be welded. In Lycomings eyes, that made the case scrap metal. The customer was sent a bill for $4000, which added more than 25 percent to the original cost of the engine.

Olofsson hit the roof. He had his lawyers lined up ready to defend his client against what he considered a deceptive practice on the part of Air Power and Lycoming. But his customer didnt want the hassle. He paid the bill and left Olofsson fuming on the sidelines of a fight he wasnt prepared to let go. He complained to both Air Power and Lycoming. Hes apparently not the only one whos been surprised by the core charge but he said Lycoming wouldnt tell him how many people have received invoices.

For its part, Lycoming makes no apologies about the policy change.Spokeswoman Karla Sexton explained that the company has always reserved the right to levy the core charges but she also agreed that, for whatever reason, the policy was rarely enforced. Last January, however, Lycoming brass decided it had had enough of the revenue leakage from unserviceable exchange parts and the core policy has been enforced since then.

Its important for us to get the best possible value for our shareholders, said Sexton. The world has gotten to be more competitive.Lycoming notified its distributors of the changes but its possible that they werent taken all that seriously. After all, nobody could ever remember a core charge being assessed. But if they didnt believe it then, they believe it now and its clear that both Lycoming and distributors have been hearing from customers infuriated at receiving hefty charge back invoices.

Explain This
Some Lycoming customers have requested a more detailed explanation of exchange core serviceability requirements and additional information regarding charge backs for inspection failures and late core return, Todd Stoner, Lycomings VP of sales and marketing wrote in an October letter to distributors. He told the distributors that as of January 5th, Lycoming will not accept exchange engines from any of its distributors without a declaration signed by the customer that he or she has read, understood and accepted the core policy and the possibility that there will be charge backs.Air Power isnt waiting until then. Its already run off copies of the declaration and will require them as of December 1st.

Lycoming Decides
The policy itself has some eyebrow-raising clauses. For instance, all of the acceptance standards are set by Lycoming and it categorically rejects many types of field repaired parts and other parts that meet FAA standards. In fact, it will reject any part with another companys identification mark (such as any of a number of FAA-approved overhaul and repair shops), regardless of the condition of the part. The rationale is that some field repairs done by shops that Lycoming considers unacceptable might not be detectable and its unwilling to take the chance.

Perhaps the most controversial aspect of the policy is that Lycoming will scrap, without consultation with the original owner, parts it considers to be obviously unairworthy. Lycoming alone gets to make that call. If it finds parts that dont meet its own quality control standards (say welded cases) but arent obviously unairworthy-again, in Lycomings judgment-the customer, through the distributor, can get the parts back within 21 days of the distributor being notified. Dont try to sneak the same parts back at a later date, though. All the numbers are recorded.

In his letter, Stoner says Lycoming wont compromise its own standards or what it perceives to be the expectations of its customers under any circumstances. We realize that FAA-approved repair stations are permitted to accept as airworthy some field-repaired parts and some parts that would not meet Lycoming tolerances, Stoner wrote. Lycoming, however, does not compromise the integrity of engines we warrant or the safety of those who depend on them by permitting the reuse of any part that fails to meet our own strict manufacturing specifications and standards. So whats the bottom line if the engine you send for exchange doesnt meet Lycoming standards? On four-cylinder engines, a rejected crankshaft will result in a $3500 charge back and an unserviceable crankcase will cost you $3000. On the sixes, a bad crank is worth $4500 and a faulty case $4000. Eight-cylinder cranks and cases each cost $12,500.

And dont be late getting the core to Lycoming. The company allows 60 days from the invoice date to receive the exchange engine. If its a month or less late, the core credit will be reduced $500. If its six months late, it will cost you $5000 and if its more than six months late, theyll simply ship it back to you collect.

Air Power Inc. (a subsidiary of Van Bortel Aircraft, of Arlington, Texas) claims to be the worlds largest distributor of Lycoming factory rebuilt engines and spokesman Howard Van Bortel says that, overall, Lycomings new stance on the core policy is good for the industry. He maintains that enforcement of the core policy is an expression of Lycomings aggressive commitment to improving its quality standards. He noted that when hundreds of crankshafts in high-horsepower 540-series engines had to be recalled a couple of years ago, the company swallowed a $40 million bill to fix the engines and provide alternative transportation for aircraft owners suddenly grounded.

At the same time, Van Bortel concedes that Lycoming could have done a better job of selling the policy shift to its customers, illuminating its quality control standards and the reasons it wont accept damaged or repaired cores. When you realize what youre getting, its still such a deal, he said. But while Van Bortel, for obvious reasons, defends Lycomings position, others are free to speculate on the impact of Lycomings policy shift.

Like you, were hearing horror stories, said Allen Weiss, of Certified Engines, a field shop in Opa Locka, Florida. He said theres lots of talk about the policy within the industry and although numbers are hard to nail down, many buyers are getting dinged with surprise core charges. Weiss said an obvious potential result is that FAA-approved overhaul shops will see an increase in their business. Were assuming its going to be a big boon to the overhaul shops, he said. Its good for the engine overhaul business but, its a shame, I dont think its good for the industry.

But Van Bortel said the overhaul shops routinely reject unserviceable components as part of the rebuilding process; replacements or repairs just become part of the final bill, rather than a separate charge. He said the industry needs a strong factory component to the engine overhaul business and hed hate to see a major shift to the independent shops that threatens the factory overhaul sector.

Lycoming is, of course, perfectly justified in assessing core charges, in our view. However, buyers should know that enforcement of the policy is at Lycomings whim. Where a field shop might dicker on repair or replacement of an expensive major component, Lycoming wont.

Thus, buyers of Lycoming overhauls and remans should realize they retain little control of the process and the factorys definition of quality could add a third to a half again as much to the overall invoice. Caveat emptor.

 

 

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, BKlott said:

Article from Aviation Consumer that was updated in October 2019 indicates a change in the enforcement of Lycoming’s Core Policy:

 

The Lycoming Surprise

After years of looking the other way, Lycoming is getting tough on core charges for factory overhauls. Read the fine print before buying.

By

 estaff

 -

Published: December 20, 2004Updated: October 29, 2019

 

by Russ Niles

When Illinois flight school and maintenance shop owner Brian Olofsson ordered a factory overhauled Lycoming engine from Air Power Inc. earlier this year for a customer, he said he was told it was business as usual. As Air Power proclaims from ads in most major aviation publications, you send in your old core for exchange and get the off-the-shelf new engine for $300 over invoice, plus taxes and shipping.

Yes, the customer or someone from his staff signed a document saying they were aware of Lycomings core exchange policy and that there could be a charge back if there were any unserviceable parts. But nobody had ever heard of Lycoming assessing a core charge, even when obviously damaged cranks and cases were returned. For years, everyone has known Lycoming looked the other way.

Until this year.

Old Policy, New Light
As Olofsson and his customer discovered, Lycoming has changed the way it does business on rebuilt and overhauled engines. It decided last January to dust off the core policy and begin strictly enforcing it. Now, if you dont go into an exchange deal with your eyes open, you could be surprised by a bill for thousands of dollars above the basic cost of the engine.

If we had known this policy had taken effect, we might have considered other options for the engine, said Olofsson. As it turned out, on September 1, more than three months after the order was placed and long after the new engine was installed and flying, the customer was notified that the crankcase of the exchange engine had a crack in the deck web of the #5 cylinder.According to Lycoming standards, a crack in that, or any other stressed section of the crankcase, cant be welded. In Lycomings eyes, that made the case scrap metal. The customer was sent a bill for $4000, which added more than 25 percent to the original cost of the engine.

Olofsson hit the roof. He had his lawyers lined up ready to defend his client against what he considered a deceptive practice on the part of Air Power and Lycoming. But his customer didnt want the hassle. He paid the bill and left Olofsson fuming on the sidelines of a fight he wasnt prepared to let go. He complained to both Air Power and Lycoming. Hes apparently not the only one whos been surprised by the core charge but he said Lycoming wouldnt tell him how many people have received invoices.

For its part, Lycoming makes no apologies about the policy change.Spokeswoman Karla Sexton explained that the company has always reserved the right to levy the core charges but she also agreed that, for whatever reason, the policy was rarely enforced. Last January, however, Lycoming brass decided it had had enough of the revenue leakage from unserviceable exchange parts and the core policy has been enforced since then.

Its important for us to get the best possible value for our shareholders, said Sexton. The world has gotten to be more competitive.Lycoming notified its distributors of the changes but its possible that they werent taken all that seriously. After all, nobody could ever remember a core charge being assessed. But if they didnt believe it then, they believe it now and its clear that both Lycoming and distributors have been hearing from customers infuriated at receiving hefty charge back invoices.

Explain This
Some Lycoming customers have requested a more detailed explanation of exchange core serviceability requirements and additional information regarding charge backs for inspection failures and late core return, Todd Stoner, Lycomings VP of sales and marketing wrote in an October letter to distributors. He told the distributors that as of January 5th, Lycoming will not accept exchange engines from any of its distributors without a declaration signed by the customer that he or she has read, understood and accepted the core policy and the possibility that there will be charge backs.Air Power isnt waiting until then. Its already run off copies of the declaration and will require them as of December 1st.

Lycoming Decides
The policy itself has some eyebrow-raising clauses. For instance, all of the acceptance standards are set by Lycoming and it categorically rejects many types of field repaired parts and other parts that meet FAA standards. In fact, it will reject any part with another companys identification mark (such as any of a number of FAA-approved overhaul and repair shops), regardless of the condition of the part. The rationale is that some field repairs done by shops that Lycoming considers unacceptable might not be detectable and its unwilling to take the chance.

Perhaps the most controversial aspect of the policy is that Lycoming will scrap, without consultation with the original owner, parts it considers to be obviously unairworthy. Lycoming alone gets to make that call. If it finds parts that dont meet its own quality control standards (say welded cases) but arent obviously unairworthy-again, in Lycomings judgment-the customer, through the distributor, can get the parts back within 21 days of the distributor being notified. Dont try to sneak the same parts back at a later date, though. All the numbers are recorded.

In his letter, Stoner says Lycoming wont compromise its own standards or what it perceives to be the expectations of its customers under any circumstances. We realize that FAA-approved repair stations are permitted to accept as airworthy some field-repaired parts and some parts that would not meet Lycoming tolerances, Stoner wrote. Lycoming, however, does not compromise the integrity of engines we warrant or the safety of those who depend on them by permitting the reuse of any part that fails to meet our own strict manufacturing specifications and standards. So whats the bottom line if the engine you send for exchange doesnt meet Lycoming standards? On four-cylinder engines, a rejected crankshaft will result in a $3500 charge back and an unserviceable crankcase will cost you $3000. On the sixes, a bad crank is worth $4500 and a faulty case $4000. Eight-cylinder cranks and cases each cost $12,500.

And dont be late getting the core to Lycoming. The company allows 60 days from the invoice date to receive the exchange engine. If its a month or less late, the core credit will be reduced $500. If its six months late, it will cost you $5000 and if its more than six months late, theyll simply ship it back to you collect.

Air Power Inc. (a subsidiary of Van Bortel Aircraft, of Arlington, Texas) claims to be the worlds largest distributor of Lycoming factory rebuilt engines and spokesman Howard Van Bortel says that, overall, Lycomings new stance on the core policy is good for the industry. He maintains that enforcement of the core policy is an expression of Lycomings aggressive commitment to improving its quality standards. He noted that when hundreds of crankshafts in high-horsepower 540-series engines had to be recalled a couple of years ago, the company swallowed a $40 million bill to fix the engines and provide alternative transportation for aircraft owners suddenly grounded.

At the same time, Van Bortel concedes that Lycoming could have done a better job of selling the policy shift to its customers, illuminating its quality control standards and the reasons it wont accept damaged or repaired cores. When you realize what youre getting, its still such a deal, he said. But while Van Bortel, for obvious reasons, defends Lycomings position, others are free to speculate on the impact of Lycomings policy shift.

Like you, were hearing horror stories, said Allen Weiss, of Certified Engines, a field shop in Opa Locka, Florida. He said theres lots of talk about the policy within the industry and although numbers are hard to nail down, many buyers are getting dinged with surprise core charges. Weiss said an obvious potential result is that FAA-approved overhaul shops will see an increase in their business. Were assuming its going to be a big boon to the overhaul shops, he said. Its good for the engine overhaul business but, its a shame, I dont think its good for the industry.

But Van Bortel said the overhaul shops routinely reject unserviceable components as part of the rebuilding process; replacements or repairs just become part of the final bill, rather than a separate charge. He said the industry needs a strong factory component to the engine overhaul business and hed hate to see a major shift to the independent shops that threatens the factory overhaul sector.

Lycoming is, of course, perfectly justified in assessing core charges, in our view. However, buyers should know that enforcement of the policy is at Lycomings whim. Where a field shop might dicker on repair or replacement of an expensive major component, Lycoming wont.

Thus, buyers of Lycoming overhauls and remans should realize they retain little control of the process and the factorys definition of quality could add a third to a half again as much to the overall invoice. Caveat emptor.

 

 

I can only find the 2004 article, but nothing that says it’s updated in 2019 or what part was updated. But it looks like stale information  

 

 In 2005, lycoming updated the core policy to basically say no chargebacks for a complete operable engines, but that was in 2005. To my knowledge, that policy has not changed.

https://www.aviationpros.com/home/press-release/10435490/lycoming-announces-change-to-engine-core-policy

The current Lycoming core policy https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Lycoming Engines Exchange Engine Core Policy.pdfhttps://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Lycoming Engines Exchange Engine Core Policy.pdf

 

[BKlott]

32 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

I can only find the 2004 article, but nothing that says it’s updated in 2019 or what part was updated. But it looks like stale information  

 

 In 2005, lycoming updated the core policy to basically say no chargebacks for a complete operable engines, but that was in 2005. To my knowledge, that policy has not changed.

https://www.aviationpros.com/home/press-release/10435490/lycoming-announces-change-to-engine-core-policy

The current Lycoming core policy https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Lycoming Engines Exchange Engine Core Policy.pdfhttps://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Lycoming Engines Exchange Engine Core Policy.pdf

 

It was right at the top of the article:

After years of looking the other way, Lycoming is getting tough on core charges for factory overhauls. Read the fine print before buying.

By

 estaff

 -

Published: December 20, 2004Updated: October 29, 2019

[jetdriven]

29 minutes ago, BKlott said:

It was right at the top of the article:

 

After years of looking the other way, Lycoming is getting tough on core charges for factory overhauls. Read the fine print before buying.

By

 estaff

 -

Published: December 20, 2004Updated: October 29, 2019

All I can find is this. Who’s says the same thing but no “updated 2019”. Perhaps you can point me to it. I’m curious what changed. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by jetdriven

[PT20J]

One issue for Lycoming is getting a core with aftermarket components because the cannot reuse them. Lycoming will probably look the other way about a bunch of stuff if you exchange an IO-360-A3B6D for an A3B6 because they’d really like to retire the dual mag engines. All I can say is that my dealings with Air Power and Lycoming were great and the rebuilt engine is running strong at 250 hours, getting 12-14 hours to a quart of oil, and it doesn’t leak.

Skip

[BKlott]

Saturday, August 28th

My Insight G2 engine monitor set has arrived. This unit will provide basic 4 cylinder CHT and EGT functions, carb air temperature and includes an in-line fuel flow transducer. Looks like this will keep my IA busy.

I have a spare hole in my panel which was previously occupied by my ADF Indicator that I intend to use. The unit cost with the Adapter Bezel Plate was $1,964.70 plus $60.00 for shipping adding $2,024.70 to our total.

Our total project cost is now $38,229.20.

 

[BKlott]

21 hours ago, jetdriven said:

All I can find is this. Who’s says the same thing but no “updated 2019”. Perhaps you can point me to it. I’m curious what changed. 

I also did a google search out of curiosity, since you have elected to make such an issue out of this, and the google search for this article also clearly shows the article was updated in October  2019, just like I said in the first place and has been reflected now in multiple screen shots which I have provided. 
 

If you wish to continue to argue this point, I can only assume that you wish to argue simply for the sake of arguing. I will say nothing further on the point as I have better things to do with my time.

For the last time:

The Lycoming Surprise

After years of looking the other way, Lycoming is getting tough on core charges for factory overhauls. Read the fine print before buying.

By

 estaff

 -

Published: December 20, 2004Updated: October 29, 2019

[jetdriven]

It appears you only want to post screenshots instead of the link to the article where we can actually read what changed.  I did plenty of Google searching, and nowhere did I find this article version “updated in 2019’ .  I am also curious about what was updated in 2019, Because all the text you have posted about this was in 2004, which is quite obsolete because a lot of things have changed since then….but it appears that we will never know that because you’re either unwilling or unable or just simply don’t want to post a link to the article that only you seem to possess. 

I’m not sure your motivation behind this,  or why you have to make it so inaccessible, but anyways,  best of luck to you.
 

However, Lycoming’s core policy, which changed dramatically in 2005, is printed on their website.. 

It also clearly states that a running operable complete engine with complete logbooks does not have core chargebacks regardless of what is found inside. 

Everyone reading this, make your own decision, but make it based on hard data…not innuendo, rumors,  fear, uncertainty, or doubt.

Edited August 29, 2021 by jetdriven

[ArtVandelay]

It appears you only want to post screenshots instead of the link to the article where we can actually read what changed.  I did plenty of Google searching, and nowhere did I find this article version “updated in 2019’ .  I am also curious about what was updated in 2019, Because all the text you have posted about this was in 2004, which is quite obsolete because a lot of things have changed since then….but it appears that we will never know that because you’re either unwilling or unable or just simply don’t want to post a link to the article that only you seem to possess. 

My google fu found this:
https://www.aviationconsumer.com/maintenance/the-lycoming-surprise/


And the letter reference on the AirPower website:

[Igor_U]

Interesting topic...

As I recently went with rebuilt IO360 for my plane their core policy (listed on their website) seemed clear to me as the core charges would not happened if engine was "operable" regardless of cracked case. Talking to the shop which helped with purchase as well as western Lycoming rep, this was confirmed to me. Further more, we got the core waiver for engine being disassembled but the shop (for OH) but I was told not Crankshaft out of limit or Case crack would cost me more...

 

All this made me look at the engine pricing again and I'm shocked:

I bought my Rebuilt engine engine in January after the $350 price increase.

Now? in the meantime price went up almost $4000! Well over $38k! Crazy!  

 

[BKlott]

Saturday, September 11th

Finally, some progress being made:

[BKlott]

Friday, September 17th.

First time out of the hangar since April. Getting it’s Corrosion-X treatment. May be ready to run by late tomorrow. We’ll see…

[carusoam]

Looking pretty close to new, BK!

-a-

[BKlott]

Saturday, September 25th.

It runs GREAT! Finally, we pulled the airplane out of the hangar, gave her two shots of prime and she fired right up on the first try. Let her idle for three minutes before shutdown to check for leaks. My new Insight G2 engine monitor works great. All EGT / CHT probes working and indicating close numbers, OAT, Carb Air Temp, fuel flow and volts working too. This is real nice to have!

The initial idle was just under 500 rpm so my IA made an adjustment and we fired it up for a longer run, magneto check and static rpm check. My static rpm should be between 2,250 and 2,350 rpm. Mine checked today at 2,400 rpm. Can’t complain about that. Mag check was within 25 rpm, second idle check at 625 rpm, pulled mixture and saw a rise to 675 rpm before she quit.

Checked navigation and strobe lights and they worked too! 
 

We couldn’t find any leaks or anything amiss so, we buttoned up the cowling which was a real challenge with all the new baffle material. Checked the cowling mounted taxi light. It was working. Then we checked the cowling mounted landing light which was not. Ugh!

Now the cowling has to come back off to replace the bulb to complete the Annual. Sigh……

First flight scheduled for early tomorrow morning. Final bills to follow.

Edited September 25, 2021 by BKlott

[A64Pilot]

Good. if I were you I’d be glad the light didn’t work, silly superstition, but if everything is perfect I get nervous, it just means I missed something

 

Your in Zephr hills? What did the Corrosion-X treatment cost you? I’m getting lazy in my old age and may just pay someone, but don’t know what’s the going rate.

Edited September 25, 2021 by A64Pilot

[BKlott]

23 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Good. if I were you I’d be glad the light didn’t work, silly superstition, but if everything is perfect I get nervous, it just means I missed something

 

Your in Zephr hills? What did the Corrosion-X treatment cost you? I’m getting lazy in my old age and may just pay someone, but don’t know what’s the going rate.

Good evening. My IA, Phil Bracken, charges $300.00 for a Corrosion-X treatment. He prefers to do it as part of an Annual Inspection because the plane is all opened up and ready to go but he will do a stand alone treatment for that price. 
 

I have found that Phil is VERY fair with his pricing. I am hangared at Zephyrhills and Phil has a number of customers that are based here as well. It makes it nice and convenient to get quality work done in your own hangar.

Edited September 26, 2021 by BKlott

[BKlott]

Sunday, September 26th

My engine project is now complete as I flew my plane for the very first time since April 13th. Nearly five and one half months, start to finish.

The engine performed flawlessly today. It ran smooth and strong without a hiccup. The only thing that was out of the ordinary, compared to the prior engine’s performance, was the oil pressure gauge indications. The gauge indicated at the top end of the green arc at full power and during my cruise setting of 2600 rpm. My prior engine never indicated that high and typically indicated at the low end of the green arc.

All the CHT and EGT indications were well within range. The G2 engine monitor performed well, thanks to my IA and his quality installation work. I am so glad that I let you guys talk me in to getting the engine monitor and particularly thankful for the G2 recommendation. 

Zephyr Aircraft Engines recommends a one hour long first flight at 75% power, thus the 2600 rpm power setting, followed by similar flights until break-in is complete. In the twenty years that I have owned this airplane, most of which were with my Dad, and the four years that we had our Grumman Cheetah, this is by far the newest, best quality engine that I have ever had the pleasure of flying behind. I could not be more happy with my choice of asking Zephyr Aircraft Engines to overhaul my engine for me.

So now we come to the day of reckoning where we learn the answer to the question that I posed back in April, “How much does an overhaul cost?”.

My final bill from my IA, which covered the removal and reinstallation of the engine, the engine mount, the new set of baffles, the new exhaust system, the installation of the new engine monitor along with some additional related new parts came to $1,604.28.

This brings our total project cost to $39,833.48.

Remember, the cost of the engine overhaul itself, without all the other ancillary, related costs, was $26,600.00 including the cost of a yellow tagged case since mine was cracked beyond repair. The overhaul itself represents just two thirds the cost of my entire project.

Again, my goal was not to do an overhaul as cheaply and inexpensively as possible. My goal was to try to do a complete and thorough job at a very high level. In other words, to try to do the job right. I think that we can now see about what that job costs. Larger engines will only cost more.

It also provides a good lesson as to the time involved with getting a project like this done. Nearly five and one half months with the airplane parked. Five and a half months of hangar rent, Insurance, Annual costs and opportunity cost. None of these were included in the project cost.

When you are shopping for an airplane that has had these time consuming projects completed (engine, avionics, paint, interior, etc.) don’t discount what the owner has endured to get the airplane to that condition when considering the price he is asking. Don’t kid yourself into thinking it would be better to buy a less expensive plane and get it fixed up yourself. The months, inconvenience and aggravation that goes along with these events should not be underestimated. 
 

These projects always take longer and cost more than you think they will going in.

Thank you for letting me share my engine overhaul experience with you. I hope that you found it interesting and helpful!

Edited September 26, 2021 by BKlott

[carusoam]

Wow great summary BK!

Way to stay on topic!

Thanks for sharing all of the details!

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

On 9/26/2021 at 6:24 PM, BKlott said:

My final bill from my IA, which covered the removal and reinstallation of the engine, the engine mount, the new set of baffles, the new exhaust system, the installation of the new engine monitor along with some additional related new parts came to $1,604.28.

I would be buying the IA a case of their favorite beverage and doing what I can to keep their feet warm at night. That is an extreeeeeemely fair price on what all was done.

[ArtVandelay]

I would be buying the IA a case of their favorite beverage and doing what I can to keep their feet warm at night. That is an extreeeeeemly fair price on what all was done.

Mine was almost 4 times that amount.

[BKlott]

7 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I would be buying the IA a case of their favorite beverage and doing what I can to keep their feet warm at night. That is an extreeeeeemly fair price on what all was done.

Agreed! I will do something extra nice for him.

 

[corn_flake]

Thanks for sharing your journey.   I just got off the phone today with a shop in CO.  I darn near fall off my chair when they quoted me $37k to overhaul an IO-360.