Looking for advice on potential purchase of an M20A

[mooneydriver1123]

Hello Mooney experts and aficionados,

I've come to Mooney Space to be educated and have knowledge imparted upon me by gracious and patient Mooney Kings and Queens. My username is a bit presumptuous, seeing as I don't own a Mooney as of yet, but, I'm trying to practice some PMA, Positive Mental Attitude. 

I'm located in Canada and looking to purchase my first aircraft. Any and all advice is much appreciated.

Mission-wise: Looking for a 4 seat aircraft (most of the time it'll be just myself plus one, but would like the option to carry a third person at least), that's relatively fast (140kts+), is IFR capable, and has a decent useful load (~650lbs plus fuel).

I'm new to the world of Mooney and I've come across this 1960 M20A. Photos. Spec sheet. Logs.

What I know:

• Asking $39,900 USD
• Current location of aircraft: Calgary, Alberta. Potential future home: Southwestern Ontario
• Fabric on the wings has been replaced by fibreglass.
• Has been for sale for some time. This video on YouTube shows it being uploaded 8 months ago.
• Has been hangared at least since the current owner purchased it. About 15 years.
• Hasn't flown much in the last few years.
• No known issues with the landing gear pucks.
• Has had a gear up landing in the past. Logs seem to document the repair fairly well.
• Has a wooden wing. I've never considered an aircraft with a wooden wing. Some reports say they can actually be preferable to metal, woods rots but aluminum corrodes - type of thinking. I'm not sure what to make of it. Seems everyone has their preferences and biases. Living in Southwestern Ontario, the humidity is a concern. Hangar space is also especially difficult to come by in my area. I may have to keep the aircraft outside for the first while. Is it even worth it to consider a wooden wing aircraft if it can't be stored in a hangar at all times?

What I don't know:

• What am I missing? This seems like a machine that would accomplish my mission, has a low-time engine, very low-time prop that was OH in 2014 (so still some time before it's 10yr inspection for us here in Canada), IFR with a GNS 480, all for a seemingly decent price point. As they say, if it's too good to be true...
• Anyone know a good mechanic for a pre-buy with experience in wooden aircraft around the Calgary, Alberta area?
• Anyone know someone with a similar short-body M20 in southwestern Ontario that would let me sit in their aircraft and try it on for size? I'm a tall dude without any trace of an eating disorder. Would anyone be able to sit behind me, or is that rear bench for aesthetics and suitcases only? I hear these short-body Mooney's can be on the smaller side? Many say the reputation for being small is simply not true, and that it's a commonly misunderstood myth. Thoughts?
• Probably a lot more that I'm not even aware of. Stuff that I don't know I don't know...

So I leave it to you, oh great and mighty gods of the Mooney Space forum. Talk me into it, talk me out of it. I'm all ears and open to any and all suggestions and recommendations.

Thank-you kindly in advance for everyone's time in helping a Mooney wannabe join your exclusive club. Or perhaps advising that I continue looking, and potentially save me from a financial 7700.

All the best.

Edited April 19, 2021 by mooneydriver1123

[Utah20Gflyer]

The engine has only averaged 14 hours a year in what you describe as a high humidity environment so that is certainly an area of concern.  Given the difficulty in determining cam/lifter corrosion in a lycoming it would be best to be very skeptical of the “low time” engine.  Add to that the wood wing and price and I think that explains why it hasn’t moved in a very hot aircraft market.   You also mentioned you wanted 650 lbs with full fuel, this plane would fall about 100 lbs short of that goal.  A C model would be more likely to make that number.  Most have 950 to 1000 lbs useful.   If it were me (and it actually was, I just purchased and saw this plane for sale and kept going)  I’d look for an all metal airplane with a more certain history.   
 

just curious...how was the fiberglassing of the wings accomplished?  Stc or 337?

 

[mooneydriver1123]

59 minutes ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

The engine has only averaged 14 hours a year in what you describe as a high humidity environment so that is certainly an area of concern.  Given the difficulty in determining cam/lifter corrosion in a lycoming it would be best to be very skeptical of the “low time” engine.  Add to that the wood wing and price and I think that explains why it hasn’t moved in a very hot aircraft market.   You also mentioned you wanted 650 lbs with full fuel, this plane would fall about 100 lbs short of that goal.  A C model would be more likely to make that number.  Most have 950 to 1000 lbs useful.   If it were me (and it actually was, I just purchased and saw this plane for sale and kept going)  I’d look for an all metal airplane with a more certain history.   
 

just curious...how was the fiberglassing of the wings accomplished?  Stc or 337?

 

Apologies, I should have written it more clearly. The aircraft is currently around Calgary, AB, which is a pretty dry climate, year-round. However, I live in Southwestern Ontario. So where it would potentially be going is certainly higher humidity.

All great points to keep in mind. I figured there had to be a reason(s) as to why it hasn't moved. Thanks for the note regarding the useful load and the different sub-models that would be better suited.

About how the fibreglass wing was accomplished: that's a great question. I have no idea. I will have to look into it further. In any case, it sounds like there's good reason to be skeptical of this bird.

Thank-you for your time.

[Learreply]

Hey, I did a little research on this plane when it was for sale in July 2019 (yes, it appears it has been for sale for over 2 years).

The wings and tail came from a scrap Mooney. The way the fibreglass was done on the wings was certified in Canada but can not be certified (at least fast or affordable) through the FAA. This has limited its sale to Canadians and is likely the reason it has been on the market for so long. (Canada does not do 337 modifications).

It has only been flown a couple times a year for the last 6 years. It’s not really good to be sitting idle like that and will likely require significant overhaul of components. The compressions are low in a couple of the cylinders so I would assume a Top overhaul will be needed shortly and possibly even the bottom depending on corrosion from sitting.

As far as wood wings goes, it should really always be in a hangar. I would advise against buying it with plan of temporarily storing it outside. With that being said, a well kept wood wing is fairly sturdy. There are many wooden Vikings still flying around. The wood wing is also a little faster (the A is usually slightly faster than a B ) The fibreglass does add weight so this might not be the case for this aircraft.

If you are open to an aircraft that might be a project this would be an ok buy for the right price, but I think it is very overpriced for what it is. Not too many great Mooneys sitting on the market for years and this one is on many sites and had a broker advertising it like crazy, so it’s not like it a hidden gem.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Learreply

[Utah20Gflyer]

Calgary doesn’t sound like a bad area to store an aircraft but I guess the question is how long has it been there.  Either way if it’s been sitting a while you will likely be looking at a lot of maintenance for at least a couple years.  The plane I bought sat a while in Tucson Arizona which is a good place for an airplane to sit but I’m finding a lot of little squawks popping up on top of some deferred maintenance I know I’m going to need to get caught up.  In my case there where a lot of other factors that offset this issue but something to think about.  Maintenance issues seem to accrue whether the plane is being flown or not so keep that in mind.  

[kerry]

The wing is probably not fiberglass resin.  The covering is most likely Razorback fabric which is fiberglass but is applied with the same dope process as Ceconite.  If it was applied with resin then it would be much to heavy and would ruin the wood wing in my opinion.  I love wood wing Mooneys but 40K seems over priced for the market.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard gents...

Having a smooth natural composite wing Mooney is a fast way to travel...

Yes... Wood is the first natural composite ever used to build airplanes... 

 

Something to consider...

Planes designed in 1960... have been seriously updated/redesigned along the way...

Find the excel spreadsheet that covers all the changes that have occurred from M20A to M20V....

When it comes to flying in winter IMC... some of these changes may be worth the extra CDs...

There are two MSCs in Canada... one is close to Toronto...

Another way to find mechanics with wood working experience... is through the EAA...

See if you can find the other MSC...  it is probably listed at the Mooney.com website...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Hank]

@M20Doc is our local Canadian expert aircraft maintainer.

[mooneydriver1123]

Thank-you for everyone's replies! You've all been most helpful. Quite something that a couple of folks here have come across this very aircraft in the past. It sounds like it may be best to pass on this bird and keep looking, not necessarily on account of the wooden wing, but more so the potential red flags. I'm not really looking for a project, and would prefer more of a turn-key aircraft (within reason) that's ready to go.

Also, I found the spreadsheet regarding the different Mooneys. Very helpful! Thanks again.

I've found a couple of other options and created a new thread here, if you would be so kind as to offer your thoughts and advice there too, it would be most appreciated.

(For future reference, should I have created a new thread or just simply added to this one? Wasn't sure since it's not the same aircraft anymore. Thoughts?)

Edited April 20, 2021 by mooneydriver1123

[carusoam]

When to start a new thread...

1) When the new posts distract from the original post... really important if the original post is still active...

2) Your new addition to an old post are going to be important to keep separate... for your needs going forwards...

3) Any member can start a new thread... and edit it’s title as things evolve...

 

PP thoughts only, not a web manager...

Best regards,

-a-

[mooneydriver1123]

6 hours ago, carusoam said:

When to start a new thread...

1) When the new posts distract from the original post... really important if the original post is still active...

2) Your new addition to an old post are going to be important to keep separate... for your needs going forwards...

3) Any member can start a new thread... and edit it’s title as things evolve...

 

PP thoughts only, not a web manager...

Best regards,

-a-

All understood. I will keep this in mind going forward. Thank-you.