M20C has icing emergency

[Mcstealth]

21 hours ago, MB65E said:

I’ve installed a vertical piece (6in or so) of black electrical tape on the wing to act as an indicator in the past.  You really can’t see the ice if the wing is white. I think I learned that from someone on this site. Thought it would be worth mentioning again. 

-Matt

Picture?

[MB65E]

6 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

Picture?

Just a piece of electrical tape on the wing where you can see it. 
-Matt

[gsxrpilot]

I picked up a trace of rime ice this afternoon descending into Denver from FL180. We were on top at FL180 but then instructed to descend maintain 16, then 14, then 13, etc. We were IMC from about 17K to 14K and picked up just a trace. Hot prop, pitot heat, descending, no problem.

[Patrick Horan]

Im the pilot in the video. Forecast was VFR. I have a whole write up of what happened. I'll just say this, during the emergency I wasn't scared or nervous. I was mainly stressed l. I was prioritizing on fixing the plane and maintaining control of the airplane (times like this is when i had autopilot). I had two passengers with me and i was explaining what was going on and trying to make them as calm as possible. If they are calm, it will help me, which meant I'll be able to fly the airplane better. I can go into a lot more on this.

[exM20K]

1 hour ago, Patrick Horan said:

Im the pilot in the video. Forecast was VFR. I have a whole write up of what happened. I'll just say this, during the emergency I wasn't scared or nervous. I was mainly stressed l. I was prioritizing on fixing the plane and maintaining control of the airplane (times like this is when i had autopilot). I had two passengers with me and i was explaining what was going on and trying to make them as calm as possible. If they are calm, it will help me, which meant I'll be able to fly the airplane better. I can go into a lot more on this.

Thanks for checking in, Patrick.  You did fine IMHO.  Not an easy place to be especially with PAX. Waived off the contact approach and landed with a reusable airplane and, I hope, passengers that will fly with you again.... 

FRA tools do call out PAX and especially low-time PAX as increasing the flight risk.  Your data point confirms this.

-dan

 

[Patrick Horan]

26 minutes ago, exM20K said:

Thanks for checking in, Patrick.  You did fine IMHO.  Not an easy place to be especially with PAX. Waived off the contact approach and landed with a reusable airplane and, I hope, passengers that will fly with you again.... 

FRA tools do call out PAX and especially low-time PAX as increasing the flight risk.  Your data point confirms this.

-dan

 

Thanks! It was one of the passengers first time in a small airplane and the other only their second. Both were proud at what they saw and I took up one of them again!

As fast as that winter storm came, it disappeared less than an hour later and was VFR and skies clear (for the most part). However, I had enough excitement for one day and one of my passenger's dad picked us up and we drove home. I

[ilovecornfields]

Would love to read the write up. Seems like everyone could learn something from this, especially if the weather forecast was VFR.

Passengers definitely make things more challenging. I love flying places with my family but I’m much more relaxed flying by myself.

Hopefully, you thanked the controllers.

[steingar]

I just hope I never have anything sufficiently eventful happen in flight for someone to want to make a YouTube movie out of it.

[DXB]

11 hours ago, Patrick Horan said:

Im the pilot in the video. Forecast was VFR. I have a whole write up of what happened. I'll just say this, during the emergency I wasn't scared or nervous. I was mainly stressed l. I was prioritizing on fixing the plane and maintaining control of the airplane (times like this is when i had autopilot). I had two passengers with me and i was explaining what was going on and trying to make them as calm as possible. If they are calm, it will help me, which meant I'll be able to fly the airplane better. I can go into a lot more on this.

Good job getting down safe! It would be interesting to have the whole story if/when you're able to share it. Carb ice in a C model and/or structural icing encounters specific to the Mooney short body airframe are events with which most of us don't have first hand experience. So getting it vicariously through you may be very instructive. And hopefully sharing won't elicit too many comments from the pilots here who've never made a mistake 

[A64Pilot]

The thing that has amazed me is how many people set up camera’s and video themselves going through life.

‘Why for example would anyone set up the go-pro and video a cross country flight? But seemingly many do.

But just as confusing to me is that they will post that on You tube or wherever for the world to see.

Someone posted a video of people in a Cessna 210 who crashed, to me that whole video was bizarre

 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

The thing that has amazed me is how many people set up camera’s and video themselves going through life.

‘Why for example would anyone set up the go-pro and video a cross country flight? But seemingly many do.

But just as confusing to me is that they will post that on You tube or wherever for the world to see.

Someone posted a video of people in a Cessna 210 who crashed, to me that whole video was bizarre

 

There's a whole spectrum of people from paranoid to exhibitionist.    Not everybody is on the paranoid side.

 

[thinwing]

wrong equipment for this flight....happy outcome ,but some poor preflight /decision making considering weather and terrain

[Gary0747]

I have never had to try using it but I always carry an 8 ounce plastic squeeze bottle containing propylene glycol that I would try to get on the windshield through that side window port if I had a complete ice cover.  

[gsxrpilot]

48 minutes ago, Gary0747 said:

I have never had to try using it but I always carry an 8 ounce plastic squeeze bottle containing propylene glycol that I would try to get on the windshield through that side window port if I had a complete ice cover.  

That would be something interesting to try. You'd want to be slow on a clear VFR day with a pilot in the right seat as well, to test this out. I'd be interested to know if you were able to get anything on the windshield.

[jaylw314]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

That would be something interesting to try. You'd want to be slow on a clear VFR day with a pilot in the right seat as well, to test this out. I'd be interested to know if you were able to get anything on the windshield.

I dunno, if you let go or if it blew out of your hand, you'd have a half-pound object flying back at the vertical stabilizer 

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, jaylw314 said:

I dunno, if you let go or if it blew out of your hand, you'd have a half-pound object flying back at the vertical stabilizer 

Exactly, and I'm thinking there is no spray bottle that would overcome the slipstream even just 80 knots.

Maybe get out on the freeway and see if your right seat passenger can spray anything on the windshield while doing 80 mph. 

I don't think this is a viable option if the windshield iced over in IMC flight. But I'd be entertained by a video of someone trying it. 

[hammdo]

Windshield washers - like cars ;o) (no wipers needed)... 

-Don

[vorlon1]

20 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

I dunno, if you let go or if it blew out of your hand, you'd have a half-pound object flying back at the vertical stabilizer 

How do you know?

Give it a try on a VFR day...

Report back.

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, Gary0747 said:

I have never had to try using it but I always carry an 8 ounce plastic squeeze bottle containing propylene glycol that I would try to get on the windshield through that side window port if I had a complete ice cover.  

You could do it, first it’s not a spray bottle. it’s a squeeze bottle, I assume like a plastic ketchup bottle but I’d want a glove on, and would it shed ice?

People that have ferried Maules to Australia via Hawaii have duct taped a couple bags of lead shot onto the engine cowling to stay within CG with the back full of fuel.

‘Once fuel is transferred from the back, you open the window and cut the bags of lead with a knife to let the shot drain out.

So sticking your arm out of a window is not unheard of, but it is unusual I guess.

However if you really do keep this as a back up plan, I think it ought to be practiced with just water, maybe start with an empty bottle to make sure you could hold on to it.

Maybe even put a dummy cord on it so it’s still attached to your wrist if the air pulls it out of your hand? Army Rangers attach every thing to them with parachute cord, call it dummy cords, that way they can’t lose anything running through the woods and crawling under wire etc.

First start with just your hand to see how well that works?

 

‘I’ll just stay out if icing myself

Edited April 19, 2021 by A64Pilot

[David Lloyd]

You better duct tape that bottle to your hand.

[Hank]

48 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Maybe get out on the freeway and see if your right seat passenger can spray anything on the windshield while doing 80 mph. 

I once sat on the right windowsill and scrubbed the windshield with a hotel towel while being driven through St. Louis one December morning. It was so cold the windshield washer fluid froze in the lines, although the tank thawed some from engine heat.

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

You better duct tape that bottle to your hand.

Hey, now that's actually a pretty good idea! 

[carusoam]

Hey Patrick!

Thanks for checking in, and sharing some of the details...

Got time for questions?

Was the pic with ice from this event..?  Or did somebody add a similar pic for a visual aid?

If you are putting a presentation together... I might know a great place to share it...  @mike_elliott

Ice is a tricky phenomenon... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Ibra]

13 hours ago, Gary0747 said:

I have never had to try using it but I always carry an 8 ounce plastic squeeze bottle containing propylene glycol that I would try to get on the windshield through that side window port if I had a complete ice cover.  

You may have to do some bumbling to deliver that over the windshield, it’s windy outside at Mooney speeds and slowing down to 60kts to pull the trick is not a good option in ice?

Better trick is open cockpit and broom stick to clean wing ice, Piper Cub FIKI, not sure if they can take as much ice as mud on their wings  (unlike closed heated cockpits, in vintage open cockpit one does appreciate how harsh freezing IMC can be, good seed for reflexes to to get out of those conditions quickly) 

On windshields, I think one starts to lose lift for climb & level flight way before getting frozen windshields, however, canopy does get misted early as they punch through on descent or climb coming from hot air with moisture inside cockpit, but that can be sorted in few minutes using defrost on windshield and the right amount of ventilation (or stop breathing, but can happens on the ground if some dog is sniffing with his nose from the storm window inside your glider )

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Ibra

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, Ibra said:

 

On windshields, I think one starts to lose lift for climb & level flight way before getting frozen windshields, 

The windshield will ice over way before it affects the flying quality of the plane and the defroster does very little.