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THIS is why I bought a Mooney


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This picture was taken yesterday coming back VFR from Colorado. Just another day for the M20K......cruising at 15,500 ft with a TAS of 173 knots burning 11.7 gal/hr

Screenshot_20210404-110308_Gallery.jpg

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Why is that impressive? I ask not to be fresh or disrespectful but I have always wondered why the K models are considered by many the ultimate Mooney. 

An Ovation will do that at non nose hose altitude for 2 gallons an hour more or bring it to 14,000 and it does the same speed on the same fuel flow. I based that off the POH.

It seems unless you go beyond 16,000 an Ovation will hang with a K burning the same gas if you should choose to and have the option to run dragon mode at oxygen altitudes.

Are Ovation POH numbers on the optimistic side? Assuming max power ROP 2700RPM what have people experienced as to what altitude does the Ovation run out of steam that it can no longer keep up with a K?

Full disclosure, I only have 3 Hours right seat in a K and 2 left seat and 5-6 right seat in a Ovation.

 

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1 hour ago, Tim Jodice said:

Why is that impressive? I ask not to be fresh or disrespectful but I have always wondered why the K models are considered by many the ultimate Mooney. 

An Ovation will do that at non nose hose altitude for 2 gallons an hour more or bring it to 14,000 and it does the same speed on the same fuel flow. I based that off the POH.

It seems unless you go beyond 16,000 an Ovation will hang with a K burning the same gas if you should choose to and have the option to run dragon mode at oxygen altitudes.

Are Ovation POH numbers on the optimistic side? Assuming max power ROP 2700RPM what have people experienced as to what altitude does the Ovation run out of steam that it can no longer keep up with a K?

Full disclosure, I only have 3 Hours right seat in a K and 2 left seat and 5-6 right seat in a Ovation.

 

What makes the K model more attractive to me is the turbo for mountain flying. It also doesn't hurt that the acquisition cost is roughly 100k less for similarly equipped examples.

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Just now, MediumSpeedAluminumTubing said:

What makes the K model more attractive to me is the turbo for mountain flying. It also doesn't hurt that the acquisition cost is roughly 100k less for similarly equipped examples.

That makes sense. 

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Speed is fun, everyone likes more speed.

But: altitude keeps you safe. The ability to get above 20 easily makes a big difference in flying safely.

 

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As a 252 Encore owner, I'll say that ALL Mooneys are great. From the M20B to the M20V they are all unbelievably efficient and yet very fast airplanes. 

But when you zero in and start splitting hairs, the 252's really seem to be the top of the heap for me. 

My real world numbers are 9.5 gph and as fast as 195 knots TAS at that fuel flow up at the top of it's available altitude. That gives me an engine out glide ring of well over 50 miles. It also gives me more than 1000 miles of range with reserves, all on standard tanks. 

I can top most weather. Ignore terrain even in Colorado. And just like an Ovation can sacrifice fuel and range to go fast, I just have to strap on the O2 mask to get the speed and even better range. Add 1100 lbs of useful load in the Encore spec, and it's a pretty capable traveling machine.

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2 hours ago, Tim Jodice said:

Why is that impressive? I ask not to be fresh or disrespectful but I have always wondered why the K models are considered by many the ultimate Mooney. 

An Ovation will do that at non nose hose altitude for 2 gallons an hour more or bring it to 14,000 and it does the same speed on the same fuel flow. I based that off the POH.

It seems unless you go beyond 16,000 an Ovation will hang with a K burning the same gas if you should choose to and have the option to run dragon mode at oxygen altitudes.

Are Ovation POH numbers on the optimistic side? Assuming max power ROP 2700RPM what have people experienced as to what altitude does the Ovation run out of steam that it can no longer keep up with a K?

Full disclosure, I only have 3 Hours right seat in a K and 2 left seat and 5-6 right seat in a Ovation.

 

I've had 2 K's, an Ovation and 3 Bravos.  The Ovation is a great airplane up to 12,000, in fact maybe the best Mooney up to that altitude. But after that the climb rate, once you've had a turbo, just doesn't match up in any way to a Turbo Mooney.

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It’s sometimes depressing to compare TAS numbers in the Bravo to others based on the fuel we burn, but it’s really about having the option to go into the FLs when needed or to catch a tailwind.  Sure, the 252 can do it all on less fuel, but 

 

(I tried to complete the sentence but could not, you win @gsxrpilot!)

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I thought the 252 was balls to the wall at 25k to get 200kts...

No one spends all the time to climb into the mid 20’s, with all the dangers that brings, to save fuel.  We want to go fast!

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In my 231 at 24,000 I see 198-200 TAS at 75% power.  That is about 13 gph fuel burn.  Note:  I have an intercooler and upper deck pressure controller which partially closes the gap to a 252.

With the modifications, my 231 comes pretty close to the factory 231 mph speed claims while running at 75% power.

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2 hours ago, MIm20c said:

No one spends all the time to climb into the mid 20’s, with all the dangers that brings, to save fuel.  We want to go fast!

To hear Paul, the Encore climbs briskly into the 20s, without either "that much time" or "that much fuel."

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In the 252, prior to the Encore conversion, and with a tired engine, I would consistently get 800 ft/min all the way to the 20's. After todays flight with a fresh engine and a bit more HP, it's a different airplane and I expect the climb will be quicker.

I usually budget 20 or 30 minutes to get to cruise altitude between FL230 and FL260. But then my hangar is already at 5600 ft.

I hear everyone saying they didn't get a Mooney to go slow. So to hell with the gas, we want to go fast. And I'm in complete agreement. But the best way to go fast A to B is to go non-stop. Climbing all the way into the flight levels doesn't make sense if you have to come back down for a fuel stop, and then climb back up again. And this is where the 252 Encore really excels. I fly at 65% power and 9.5 gph not to save gas, but to go fast. And going fast means being able to skip the fuel stop everyone else is making.

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Skipping a fuel stop is what introduced José to the Mooney world!

He had a small ad in every MAPA magazine...  it just makes great sense.

Best regards,

-a-

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10 hours ago, Tim Jodice said:

What are Acclaim owners seeing at 15-16,000 feet?

205-210 ktas rich of peak. about 19.8gph
193-198 ktas lop about 16.3gph

this is full gross, after a 1100-1400fpm climb burning 33gph. 
 

an ovation leaps off the ground and easily out climbs the acclaim until about 500’, then the acclaim is in a class of its own. 
someone else said earlier, once you get a turbo it’s hard to go back. 
that is very much the case for me, I sold an acclaim and got an ovation, and sold that to go back to an acclaim. 
 

I bought a plane to go fast, the only way I could sell my Mooney is if I can afford something faster. 
I have 950# UL, and a 5ish hour range running high speed lop, and 6+ hours running 65% power. That is more than adequate for me. 
 

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9 minutes ago, Schllc said:

an ovation leaps off the ground and easily out Climbs the acclaim until about 500’,
 

I think you may have left a zero off the end of that 500’?

With the 310hp option... climbing out at 2kfpm is hard to beat...

I threw in the extra for free...   :)

Best regards,

-a-

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33 minutes ago, Schllc said:

I bought a plane to go fast, the only way I could sell my Mooney is if I can afford something faster. 
I have 950# UL, and a 5ish hour range running high speed lop, and 6+ hours running 65% power. That is more than adequate for me. 

My C is a whole different class of Mooney than yours, but my 52 gals are good for at least 5-1/2 hours, more as I go higher. UL = 970 lb, or Full Fuel + 670 lb, or Me + Full Fuel + my favorite 470 lb.

Did an IPC tonight, flew 1.4 hours including 3 laps in a hold (old school ILS, didn't activate the approach, use VOR#2 to identify FAF) and a GPS black hole approach to full stop at home--kept 2 red / 2 white until the VASIs went behind the wing. The-II has a Warrior II, and was shocked that we did this in 1.4 hours instead of the "normal" 2 hours. Then I checked my fuel--the Warrior burns 12 gph, my 1.4 hours burned 11 gallons total . . . .

THAT'S  why I fly a Mooney!!

(plus it was for sale, local, in good condition and at a fair price) (and my wife agreed!  :ph34r:)

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7 hours ago, carusoam said:

I think you may have left a zero off the end of that 500’?

With the 310hp option... climbing out at 2kfpm is hard to beat...

I threw in the extra for free...   :)

Best regards,

-a-

You’re right, an acclaim probably doesn’t start out climbing an ovation with 310hp until after 500’, but it doesn’t take until 5000’ for sure. 
That is, unless you have one of those magic ovations that I keep reading about, you know, the ones that will  climb at 2000fpm then cruise at 196ktas on 11.5gph.  
I wasn’t fortunate enough for either of my ovations to be magical, I never saw those numbers. 

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