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Finishing an engine overhaul


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After months of no communication from "Bob," I hear from our A&P (not Bob) that Bob's retiring and not going to finish my engine overhaul (was torn apart and farmed out to DivCo (we have the cases back) and Aircraft Specialties (invoices are paid, work done, parts - all new cylinders, crank/cam shaft, etc - still at their facility). The highly recommended local shop (Tim's at Long Beach) doesn't want to jump in mid-process. Anyone know a shop that can put this thing back together? Preferably on the west coast.
 
 
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I can’t believe the luck you’ve had over the past few years...

Sam and David over at Jewel have helped out a lot of members and are very fast.  Might want to give them a call and see if they can help you out. Shipping is cheap, go with a shop that’ll get it done. 
 

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Dumb question: Sounds like you have all the fresh parts ready to go.  So, just how difficult a job is it for your A&P to reassemble?  I've never rebuilt an aircraft piston engine so pardon my ignorance.

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Just now, MikeOH said:

Dumb question: Sounds like you have all the fresh parts ready to go.  So, just how difficult a job is it for your A&P to reassemble?  I've never rebuilt an aircraft piston engine so pardon my ignorance.

They're about like any other engine except you would probably kiss a warranty good bye and it would be a field overhaul 

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12 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

They're about like any other engine except you would probably kiss a warranty good bye and it would be a field overhaul 

Good points!

I often wonder how useful an engine warranty really is; I suspect they are pro-rated and don't cover R&R, or parts that need to be replaced (like gaskets) other than the part that failed.

The other thought I've had is how much resale value, in dollars, does a name brand shop overhaul really amount to over a field overhaul of the same hours; especially once reaching mid-time??

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@201Steve it is pretty chicken shit of him not finishing up prior commitments. @MikeOH as far as minor warranty claims its generally easier just to eat them than go to the BS of getting them done under warranty. Field overhauls wouldn't bother me IF I knew the person and knew they had great attention to detail and was meticulous about their work

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Dumb question: Sounds like you have all the fresh parts ready to go.  So, just how difficult a job is it for your A&P to reassemble?  I've never rebuilt an aircraft piston engine so pardon my ignorance.

Oh there’s a lot that can go wrong. Mike Busch talks about infant mortality on major engine work in a few of his videos. Things like spun bearings, bolts not torqued correctly...there’s one member here who found a broken cotter pin in his oil.
I spent the money on a well known, established shop with excellent reputation and personally would not consider a field overhaul.
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9 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Dumb question: Sounds like you have all the fresh parts ready to go.  So, just how difficult a job is it for your A&P to reassemble?  I've never rebuilt an aircraft piston engine so pardon my ignorance.

There really isn’t much to one at all. not much more complex than a lawnmower engine. 

‘What gets people is some won’t send cases to Divco and the crank and rods off to AC specialties and the cam and lifters etc, they give them the evil eye, maybe mic them themselves or use plastigauge and go with that. A lot of money is spent or can be saved in some minds by sending the parts off to quality specialty shops to have them done right. 

‘A good A&P/IA in my opinion knows when to send things off to speciality shops and have them done right, we aren’t the masters of everything. 

‘Have you ever rebuilt a Diesel? well some insist on doing the injectors and pump themselves because of course an injection shop costs money, but there is no way they have the proper equipment to test and adjust the pump and injectors. Aircraft engine components are the same way.

‘IF I could verify all the pieces parts were done correctly and there should be paperwork, or it wasn’t done, then I’d find me a good A&P and assemble the engine.

‘What other choice does he have?  A pro overhauler won’t touch it I’m sure, or if they do he’s paying full price to have it all redone.

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I'm just getting mine back together. All I'm lacking is a manifold pressure line and a clamp for the air/oil separator. Should be here today. 

Rebuilding one of these engines is more a logistical challenge than the skill to assemble it. Even rebuilding it myself, it cost about $20K. That did include a propeller overhaul. I started this in September and have waiting for the brown truck every day. 

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11 hours ago, RLCarter said:

@201Steve it is pretty chicken shit of him not finishing up prior commitments. @MikeOH as far as minor warranty claims its generally easier just to eat them than go to the BS of getting them done under warranty. Field overhauls wouldn't bother me IF I knew the person and knew they had great attention to detail and was meticulous about their work

May not be a voluntary retirement. 

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3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I'm just getting mine back together. All I'm lacking is a manifold pressure line and a clamp for the air/oil separator. Should be here today. 

Rebuilding one of these engines is more a logistical challenge than the skill to assemble it. Even rebuilding it myself, it cost about $20K. That did include a propeller overhaul. I started this in September and have waiting for the brown truck every day. 

The $20k minus prop OH ($2K to $3K)- is that all parts, no labor?   If no labor, that seems high?   Trying to calibrate for my own OH coming up in the next few years.

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15 hours ago, chrixxer said:

After months of no communication from "Bob," I hear from our A&P (not Bob) that Bob's retiring and not going to finish my engine overhaul (was torn apart and farmed out to DivCo (we have the cases back) and Aircraft Specialties (invoices are paid, work done, parts - all new cylinders, crank/cam shaft, etc - still at their facility). The highly recommended local shop (Tim's at Long Beach) doesn't want to jump in mid-process. Anyone know a shop that can put this thing back together? Preferably on the west coast.
 
 
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Have you checked with Corona Aircraft Engines? I have heard good things about them and they are fairly close by.

https://www.coronaengines.com/

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46 minutes ago, 0TreeLemur said:

The $20k minus prop OH ($2K to $3K)- is that all parts, no labor?   If no labor, that seems high?   Trying to calibrate for my own OH coming up in the next few years.

The case overhaul was $1500. The cylinders were $1900 each. Cam lifter and crank overhaul was $4500. Prop was $4500 (don't ask it will make me mad again) Governor was $1200 + another $500 for inspection by the same prop shop who made me mad) Fuel injection was $1800 for overhaul. Bearings, rod bolts, gaskets and Misc. was another couple of grand. And about 2000 hours of my labor. Oh there was another few hundred for NDT on the gears and accessory case. and a few hundred to re-plate all the hardware and fittings.

I have a giant pile of receipts, I'm afraid to actually add them up.

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7 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have a giant pile of receipts, I'm afraid to actually add them up.

Please don't!! You'll just get mad all over again. And if you do, please don't write it here--you'll cause untold misery and agony.  :(

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15 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The case overhaul was $1500. The cylinders were $1900 each. Cam lifter and crank overhaul was $4500. Prop was $4500 (don't ask it will make me mad again) Governor was $1200 + another $500 for inspection by the same prop shop who made me mad) Fuel injection was $1800 for overhaul. Bearings, rod bolts, gaskets and Misc. was another couple of grand. And about 2000 hours of my labor. Oh there was another few hundred for NDT on the gears and accessory case. and a few hundred to re-plate all the hardware and fittings.

I have a giant pile of receipts, I'm afraid to actually add them up.

Hoses, I forgot hoses $1200 more. 

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1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The case overhaul was $1500. The cylinders were $1900 each. Cam lifter and crank overhaul was $4500. Prop was $4500 (don't ask it will make me mad again) Governor was $1200 + another $500 for inspection by the same prop shop who made me mad) Fuel injection was $1800 for overhaul. Bearings, rod bolts, gaskets and Misc. was another couple of grand. And about 2000 hours of my labor. Oh there was another few hundred for NDT on the gears and accessory case. and a few hundred to re-plate all the hardware and fittings.

I have a giant pile of receipts, I'm afraid to actually add them up.

One time I started to add up receipts of expenditures on our C.   I pulled out that stack of papers and had an epiphany- why?   What good could come from this?   Would I do anything different?   It's not a revenue generating investment, it's a hobby.  An expensive hobby.  I agree with what @Hank wrote.  Nothing good can come from it.

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What kind of lazy ass bum quits so quickly that he can’t even finish a one day job before closing his doors? Corralling the parts is the long part. I feel like there’s more to the story. 

I learned more last night. “Bob” was operating (for decades) out of a T hangar on the non-commercial side. He had the fuselage of an old Cessna hanging from the rafters to “satisfy” the “used primarily for storage of an airworthy aircraft” requirement. City found out about it, and is evicting him.


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What kind of lazy ass bum quits so quickly that he can’t even finish a one day job before closing his doors? Corralling the parts is the long part. I feel like there’s more to the story. 

I learned more last night. “Bob” was operating (for decades) out of a T hangar on the non-commercial side. He had the fuselage of an old Cessna hanging from the rafters to “satisfy” the “used primarily for storage of an airworthy aircraft” requirement. City found out about it, and is evicting him.


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