BaldEagle Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 My No. 2 VOR head has failed. Is there any point in repairing / replacing these things given that VORs are on their way out? My primary Nav/Comm is an IFD440 and Aspen PFD Max. My second Nav/Comm is an ancient Colins VFH-251. I still get VOR2 input to the Aspen (and I can still ident it, which confirms it's the head that failed), but it functions as an RMI. What would you do? One thought is to replace VOR2 head unit with a GI275 for CDI + AI backup, and retire the vacuum driven AI and pump at the same time. Or just mark VOR2 INOP and wait for it to go the way of ADF / Loran, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 Is that your backup approach capability in case the 440 goes TU? I’d probably keep a secondary way to shoot an approach if you fly ifr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 What are they going for on EBay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMc Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 Best fix, go with the GI275. Quick fix, I have a VOR head (no GS, 12v) that's in a box that will all my old radios I'm probably going to pick up from the shop this week. Make me an offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 WWAD... sound familiar? What Would Alan Do... See what Alan has on the pre-flown avionics shelf... that match your needs. VORs aren’t going away fast enough... they still make great support for a faulty GPS signal... or faulty nav1... If you have the budget...the GI275 is very forward thinking... great for a forever plane... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 It seems like people are responding without reading the post. The IFD440 is Nav 1 (and GPS of course), you've obviously got a second Nav radio that is Nav 2. You can tune in VOR's on either the IFD440 or the second Nav/Com. Have I got it right so far? Your primary display is the Aspen which will display the needle for GPS, VOR1 or VOR2. The only thing that's not working is the second, dedicated display head for Nav 2 or VOR2. So my opinion, and I have almost the same setup, Aspen PFD, IFD540, KX165(2nd Nav/Com)... I wouldn't replace the failed VOR head. In fact I removed the same VOR head out of my panel. I guess I could sell it to you. I think I have it around here somewhere. But I figured the chances I'd ever need it are so remote, it's not worth the extra half pound in the panel. First of all, nearly everything is GPS these days anyway. But on the off chance I have to tune in a VOR, it displays just fine on the Aspen. It can also display on the IFD. And worse case scenario, and I have to tune in a VOR on my secondary nav/com since my IFD is acting up, it also displays just fine on the Aspen. I do have a second AI as required by the Aspen. I have a G5 for that purpose... which can also be toggled to an HSI mode and display that VOR2. The GI275 would also be a great backup to the Aspen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 Soooo.... the only time this VOR head gets used is when the Aspen shows a Big X? Or is there a second Aspen..? For getting to the ground in IMC... I would want two nav boxes driving two independent displays... A second AI as well... IMC is the important part of the decision... No IMC... replace the broken gauge with something similar... or glass if desired... PP thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 The second VOR CDI is nice for doing the 30-day IFR check (which I'm guessing many don't do), and also as a display backup, etc. I use mine from time to time even though I have an IFD540 GPS and a G5 HSI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted March 30, 2021 Report Share Posted March 30, 2021 You don’t need another head but if you did use a 275 you’d also have a backup ai and you can still follow the vor while jn ai mode. Plus it’s also a backup vfr gps when installed in cdi mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted March 30, 2021 Report Share Posted March 30, 2021 https://www.facebook.com/groups/1798100110219871 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXB Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 On 3/28/2021 at 7:07 PM, BaldEagle said: One thought is to replace VOR2 head unit with a GI275 for CDI + AI backup, and retire the vacuum driven AI and pump at the same time. I did exactly that - tear out the vac system and put in a GI275 as backup. I have a PFD Max and a GTN650. The GI275 provides spectacular functionality in addition to being a really nice backup AI. I'm not sure the GI275 will integrate quite as well with your IFD440 - it may be worth exploring in depth before deciding. Also I think the GI275 is technically supposed to be locked in AI mode for this type of backup install, but given that there's no safety dividend to this ludicrous requirement.... It's hard to imagine replacing your old 2nd nav head regardless in your situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerostarDriver Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, DXB said: I did exactly that - tear out the vac system and put in a GI275 as backup. I have a PFD Max and a GTN650. The GI275 provides spectacular functionality in addition to being a really nice backup AI. I'm not sure the GI275 will integrate quite as well with your IFD440 - it may be worth exploring in depth before deciding. Also I think the GI275 is technically supposed to be locked in AI mode for this type of backup install, but given that there's no safety dividend to this ludicrous requirement.... It's hard to imagine replacing your old 2nd nav head regardless in your situation. Technically speaking, their is no reason why an IFD-440 would not work with an GI-275... However, an IFD-440 is not listed as an approved source for position or navigation data. All the GI-275 needs is a Analog or ARINC source for nav data and an RS-232/MAPMX line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 A friend just replaced a crappy old CDI with a GI-275. That's a really nice option and it does a lot of other cool useful stuff when not being a nice CDI if connected to suitable sources. Apparently one bug, though, is that on ILS approaches the OBS has to be set to within some tolerance of the approach heading or it loses the GS and maybe does some other unexpected stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldEagle Posted March 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 Thanks all for the feedback. For now I’ve decided to just replace the failed CDI as I found a serviceable replacement for only $245 which buys me a little more time while I decide on the upgrade path. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 Well, isn't the 251 also an ILS receiver, and if so doesn't it receive the GS? If it were just VOR nav that would be affected then it would be an easier question, but if that is your backup for ILS approaches, I would want a working backup receiver for sure, and in my aircraft I have that (a 430AW backing up a 750) as well as a second CDI that the 430 is connected to. I don't necessarily agree that everything has gone GPS/RNAV. Yes, pretty much any airport that has an ILS also has an RNAV, or more than one RNAV, but the ILSs are still much more familiar to ATC and they are way shorter than flying all the way out to an IAF that is 15 miles out and flying the whole approach from there. ATC is not at all reluctant to vector aircraft to final on an ILS, but slow to do the same thing with RNAVs. The ILS is usually the slickest, fastest way to get down and the one in most common use at towered airports. Before my current configuration I had the 430 as my primary nav instrument, connected to my 256 and driving the AP, and a KNS80 connected to a CDI as the backup (those were a separate system). On two separate occasions I had the 430 receive the localizer but not the GS, don't know why, and after the first one I always put the ILS into the KNS 80 as well, as a backup, which worked well the second time it happened. The moral of the story is that I, personally, would not want a panel that does not at least have a second NAV radio that can be connected either to the main CDI to act as a backup display for the ILS, and better yet, connected to its own CDI so I have both the receiver and the display backed up. I would put in the 275, and I would look in to whether the MFD model can act as primary for the Turn Coordinator, and can act as a backup AI. You would kill lots of birds with one stone with that solution. I recently put in the AI model of the 275 and with the addition of a temp probe, it can act as primary for the Turn Coordinator as well as backup for the existing AI (K256) that drives the AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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