FlyingDude Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Hi guys, Today we finished my first annual with an epic gear swing. Do you have any pictures of your gear in up position? I have the brake on the aft of the gear leg (I think this is a speed mod). When gear is up, everything is flush (wheel tucked in, gear doors flush with wing skin) but the brakes droop down, under the skin. My mechanic said that's cool but I don't know, man. Would that cause extra drag? Maybe it's good but maybe I could make it better I just wanted to compare it with your experience... Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Dude, Sounds like you didn’t get the brake reversal update... Show a pic of your brakes dragging in the wind... Somebody will show you an STC from Lasar.... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDude Posted March 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 A, Is the upgrade with the brakes in the front or back of the wheels? ... Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDude Posted March 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Found my answer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 @FlyingDude- I’ve got the brake rotation. It definitely looks cleaner when the gear is retracted, but I honestly don’t think it makes any difference in speed (and if it does, it’s maybe 0.1 knot). The downside to the brake rotation is that if you get a flat tire, you’ll destroy your brake caliper. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDude Posted March 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Hey Andy, Thank you for the heads up. Yeah, even if it did add speed as advertised, it's only 1mph. I was more after the aesthetics and reduction of whistling and howling... How does the caliper get destroyed with flat tire? This would be awful. Honestly, I placed in the order, but if it increases risk of damage, I'll call lasar tomorrow to cancel... Thanks a lot. Cheers F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Well, “destroy” might’ve been too strong a word. Damaged is definitely correct. The caliper ends up being lower than the disc and also below the wheel hub, so with a flat tire the caliper will end up on the ground. One upside is that the brake pads are much easier to inspect and replace. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDude Posted March 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Thanks Andy. Honestly I'm not sure if I really want it now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 I had the brake reversal on my M20C as well. And I also had one flat tire. The brake caliper never touched the ground and wasn't damaged. If you taxied around on a flat tire it probably would get damaged. But with a normal flat tire, there is still enough rubber folded under between the rim and the ground, to keep the caliper clear... just. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 10 hours ago, Andy95W said: @FlyingDude- I’ve got the brake rotation. It definitely looks cleaner when the gear is retracted, but I honestly don’t think it makes any difference in speed (and if it does, it’s maybe 0.1 knot). The downside to the brake rotation is that if you get a flat tire, you’ll destroy your brake caliper. 28 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: I had the brake reversal on my M20C as well. And I also had one flat tire. The brake caliper never touched the ground and wasn't damaged. If you taxied around on a flat tire it probably would get damaged. But with a normal flat tire, there is still enough rubber folded under between the rim and the ground, to keep the caliper clear... just. I have the brake reversal. About 2 1/2 years ago I had the exciting experience of landing with both mains locked up, some of you may remember the thread on here. Both tires definitely flat, holes through the tires and tubes, no damage to the calipers. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said: I had the brake reversal on my M20C as well. And I also had one flat tire. The brake caliper never touched the ground and wasn't damaged. If you taxied around on a flat tire it probably would get damaged. But with a normal flat tire, there is still enough rubber folded under between the rim and the ground, to keep the caliper clear... just. 29 minutes ago, Skates97 said: I have the brake reversal. About 2 1/2 years ago I had the exciting experience of landing with both mains locked up, some of you may remember the thread on here. Both tires definitely flat, holes through the tires and tubes, no damage to the calipers. That’s really good to know. Like Paul said, there must be enough rubber to prevent damage. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Skates97 said: I have the brake reversal. About 2 1/2 years ago I had the exciting experience of landing with both mains locked up, some of you may remember the thread on here. Both tires definitely flat, holes through the tires and tubes, no damage to the calipers. So, how short was the rollout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 8 hours ago, MikeOH said: So, how short was the rollout? I don't remember, but it was not long... I should have gone back with a tape measure and measured the skid marks, it was easy to see where they started and stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolter Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 12 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: I had the brake reversal on my M20C as well. And I also had one flat tire. The brake caliper never touched the ground and wasn't damaged. If you taxied around on a flat tire it probably would get damaged. But with a normal flat tire, there is still enough rubber folded under between the rim and the ground, to keep the caliper clear... just. I think tire choice can affect this as well. The Goodyears have stiffer sidewalls than some of the cheaper options. Provides a little more support when flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor_U Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 My understanding is that newer Mooneys do come with reversed calipers as standard. Is that correct? Anyway, caliper or brake damage is real possibility and happened on my M20F. Few years ago, I refueled my plane and decided to add the air in tires a night (or two) before morning flight to Tahoe (Mooney group fly-in). On Friday morning, RHS tire was flat (valve didn’t seat well and leaked) and the blead valve of the caliper made a contact with a ground which in turn cracked the brake pad and allowed a brake fluid to leak out passed the seal. Even KPAE is a big field, we couldn’t find a mechanic willing to work on the plane in next couple of days, so we missed the fly in. Edge of the caliper is lower than the wheel rim and especially with an angle (the other tire was fully inflated) it hits the ground. With both tires flat, perhaps it wouldn’t as plane would be in horizontal attitude and even flat tires have some thickness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67 m20F chump Posted March 30, 2021 Report Share Posted March 30, 2021 Is the fitting at the top of the caliper on an angle? The picture is from the from the front and I can’t tell for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDude Posted April 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 Hi guys, I purchased the STC. I think we'll do it next weekend. Do you have pictures of properly executed caliper speed mod? For example, how do you route the brake hose? I saw this one around, but the this hose seems susceptible to chafing against the wheel, methinks. But of course, I'd love to see pictures of all aspects, not just the hose routing. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammdo Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 Mine tucked up: 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201Steve Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 I’ve always been confused by this mod. How does the position of the brake caliper, which is stowed by a gear door panel, have anything to do with speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Harral Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 2 hours ago, 201Steve said: I’ve always been confused by this mod. How does the position of the brake caliper, which is stowed by a gear door panel, have anything to do with speed? Older models do not have inner gear doors, so the caliper is not "stowed by a gear door panel", it hangs out in the breeze (see pics above). When the landing gear is retracted, the wheel axle to which the caliper torque plate attaches is not perpendicular to the bottom wing skin. It sits at a bit of an angle. Because of this, the reversed caliper position hangs out in the breeze a tad less than the original caliper position... ... but not by much. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 Dude, Looks like Don has you covered... for a pic of the routing. Nice catch on the routing issue... Add to your list... see what it takes to clean and paint the gear legs... It takes some planning, so... while you are there this week... get a good look. When the calipers get reversed... they are on the other side of the wheel out of the wind... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammdo Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 Here is another one: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDPetersen Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 It is interesting that this mod uses an STC. Understandable, I suppose. But in the restoration of my Stinson I find that the Cleveland brake conversion gets the calipers installed forward, aft or even up depending on the brake without extra paperwork. I guess that’s how it goes with a 75 year old airplane. As long as someone signs it off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 9 hours ago, Vance Harral said: Older models do not have inner gear doors, so the caliper is not "stowed by a gear door panel", it hangs out in the breeze (see pics above). When the landing gear is retracted, the wheel axle to which the caliper torque plate attaches is not perpendicular to the bottom wing skin. It sits at a bit of an angle. Because of this, the reversed caliper position hangs out in the breeze a tad less than the original caliper position... ... but not by much. Which goes to say that an inner gear door may be a better mod./ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDude Posted April 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 Thank you guys. Yeah, I was imagining that the hose should be routed on the front of the leg but then I saw this plane at sun&fun... The owner and I had a conversation. He said he bought that plane with this mod done. We wondered if his was routed like that so that the hose doesn't chafe against the front door well wall... I should do a gear swing to make sure all is good... As for cleaning and painting the gear... I cleaned most of it and painted some spots with spray paint during tire change. I'll do more later. I don't feel like removing the gear, though. Thanks again and cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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